I have one counterfeit sample, on cover, PU, (shown), but have no one original to compare difference, so, if someone here can explain me where and what are difference between?
Sender is very serious organization in Philately, than the letter stated that "...The Reagan stamp is real, the animal stamp is counterfeit...".
Same letter have heading: "Why are there two stamps on my envelope?".
But more worrying information (in this letter) is that: "...It is significant problem to the stamp hobby. .... regularly has sellers who offer US Postage Stamps (counterfeit) at 15% to 25% of face...".
As I see, no one in this Group have an clear answer, so I will go to purchase one or two sample directly from US post and compare it.
Early on the giveaway was the lack of being tagged which could be determined by checking with a UV light. More recent, new designs are now often conterfeited with tagging. Your best chance now is comparision of the areas of microtext included within the new stamp designs. The poorer quality or unreadible microtext is likely the counterfeit.
The reason conterfeiting is so successful is that the common customer can't tell if a stamp is conterfeit within a second or two. Also saving $50-$60 on a $73 dollar roll of stamps is quite entising for many. Furthermore, once the counterfeit stamps are "in the wild" price alone will not differentiate the conterfeit from genuine postage sold at a discount. Here in the USA genuine discount sheets of forever stamps wholesale at 30% of face currently but the market does fluctuate.
So Milco order a stamp from the USPS to compare if they remain on sale currently.
My last comment is, with the money to be made conterfeiting stamps, it is not a problem for large counterfeit printing operations to purchase and use the same printing presses as those used to produce genuine stamps.
You know, personally, and as APS #184497 member, I know how to see difference between original and counterfeit samples, especially that I'm printing plant technician by profession, and as over 35 years as part-time stamp dealer, specializing in Yugoslavia (and all former Republics) I have a lot of material, overprints, fake cancels etc on my desk.
Here, simply, I don't have one original sample of "Panther" issue to compare, so I ask members, if someone will be glad, to tell me exactly difference, so I don't need to purchase original one from eBay or directly from US Post.
We know well how much delivery is costly.
But, if we talk about purchasing printing machine for making counterfeit ("as a side income"), will be too risky and expensive, as one printing machine is a lot of money to invest. Than, person must be expert in printing process with access to printing paper and all other materials.
Market and saving on postage cost for someone who use large quantity of mail - what to say .... I'm personally against any discount on postage stamps when purchased in large quantity, because postage stamps are "mean of payment" same as banknote, so giving discount on it, actually, make some kind of inflation of own money. I know, exist many "other" way, to still keep discount available, but it is another story.
Such expensive presses and printing operations are profitable in China.
Scott US Specialized Catalog once listed counterfeits but due to the explosion of counterfeits (and other financial considerations) Scott pull the section from the Specialized and issued a counterfeits catalog. For early counterfeits,it was relatively easy to define the counterfeit but with the counterfeits of the last 5 years, the catalog listings are woefully unhelpful with quick methods for making IDs. That said, the pricing for on cover use is significant so do not remove your counterfeits from the envelope.
Now you have over 50 posts so you are allowed trading related posts. Perhaps you can see if a member of the SCF will send you a single or pane of real USPS sold stamps. Of course, the issue becomes are these real so buying still in USPS packaging perhaps is the only safe option. One dealer in the USA moves much discount postage and seems adept at identifying and not selling fakes and that is Henry Gitner [Philatelists Inc.]. If you don't care about the condition of the full sheet, just ask him to fold it into a standard letter envelope and mail it that way.
Quote: But, if we talk about purchasing printing machine for making counterfeit ("as a side income"), will be too risky and expensive, as one printing machine is a lot of money to invest. Than, person must be expert in printing process with access to printing paper and all other materials.
Chinese manufacturers of counterfeit stamps absolutely have the latest production machinery. They operate in the open and print mainstream products as well. They operate with impunity since they are approved to do so by the CCP.
Quote: Three Chinese printing operations have been identified as the source of the scandal: a Shenzhen factory claiming a production capacity of one million counterfeit stamps per week; a Quanzhou firm offering large quantities of first-class large barcoded stamps; and a Shanghai supplier which requires a minimum order of 20,000 stamps.
A few conclusions can be drawn from these developments. These are highly sophisticated and industrial-scale forgery operations. The aforementioned facilities in the PRC are capable of producing fake stamps indistinguishable even to Royal Mail experts. They must, therefore, utilise state-of-the-art equipment capable of high-resolution production, able to mimic closely the security features of genuine stamps, including barcodes. The rapid delivery of high volumes of these counterfeit stamps to the UK points to a well-established logistical network. Counterfeits must be able to meet visual and textural standards which can evade detection within postal systems, suggesting advanced quality control measures. Undoubtedly, these operations are driven by substantial investments in advanced printing technology. Is it unreasonable, then, to assume in these operations Chinese state complicity – or at the very least, a knowledge of their existence?
Voicing this concern openly is unwise until there is irrefutable evidence that the Chinese government is aware of the counterfeit printing facilities. It can be assumed with reasonable doubt, quietly, that this is the case. Certainly, given the regulatory environment in the PRC and close monitoring of economic activity by the state, the substantial resources, technical expertise, and coordination demanded by the counterfeit operations would be tricky to achieve without some level of government awareness.
rogdcam - really good information,but, blaming China, You know, it is little bit, how to say .... see:
I see it in another way - globally, printing postage stamps go from "hard to counterfeit" to "easy" even "very easy", because of printing technique they are using today. Micro printing security are not problem as it is not exactly "micro", probably law enforcement have a role here too! Postage stamps as mean of payment, need to be treated same as paper money/currency, so, just possession of fake banknote, will do a great problem to person that have it.
Than, we have a few European countries, that still use engraved technique in producing postage stamps, and, as I know, no counterfeit come to the market, and if exist, it is in small scale or rarely happen.
Thanks to Parcelpostguy, too - once, few years back, I used to purchase directly from USPS, than, they made some reorganization and some policy made impossible to purchase directly - charging for "shipping and handling", or delivery cost, or minimum order and so on. If I'm correct, they have fixed "handling" fee of 10+ US$ per order, so ordering less than 100 US$ it will be pure non-sense.
Probably, I will just ask someone in correct forum for sample.
Most European countries are too small to counterfeit their stamps. Many of the countries only sell stamps through post offices or retailers in regulated industries. There, simply, is not enough money to be earned by counterfeiting their stamps.
Unlike Royal Mail, Deutsche Post is using the data matrix to prevent use of counterfeit stamps. The Brits appear to, once again, have adopted something only to see what excuses they can come up with to argue that it does not work.
The consequence is that counterfeiting US and UK stamps have the best return on investment. They also are among the countries where the population has an inherent tendency to ignore official warnings.
Quote: rogdcam - really good information,but, blaming China, You know, it is little bit, how to say .... see:
China has been ripping off the World for decades now from outright counterfeiting to IP theft at a massive scale not to mention flooding the US with Fentanyl. There are no excuses for China. I worked in Afghanistan and Iraq from 2005 to 2011. The marketplaces were jam packed with counterfeited goods from China. From office equipment to food and everything in between they copied US goods down to the hologram labels meant to ensure you were getting the real deal. All of it catches on fire, does not work or fails in some way. They don't care. Here in the US you need only look on Amazon to see the extent of the problem. My wife made pet products and within six months companies from China were selling copies down to the hang tags. They had websites which looked identical to Her's.
So, back to stamps. It is beyond well documented that the Chinese are flooding the US with counterfeit stamps. They have been seized at ports, airports, in stores and anywhere else you can think of. If you use the forum search function, I posted screen captures from Chinese companies offering fake stamps by the millions. They posted photos of their manufacturing facilities showing the latest machinery that matched that used by real postage manufacturers. These solicitations were all over Alibaba until the heat was too much but you can still find them on Temu.
Blaming China is being real. Giving them a pass is beyond absurd.
As is - is, but I still don't have any information what is different between original and counterfeit "Panther" issue. Strange that in this Community, no one have information about how to see difference. So, I will wait till my friend in USA deliver original one, and will search and inspect it by myself. I will inform as it will arrive.
Milco, I believe the main reason that nobody in the community has given specific details on the differences is because of the sheer number of counterfeits that are out there. Basically, every forever stamp issued in at least the last 3-4 years has been counterfeited.
The 2022 Specialized did have a fairly good (but still incomplete) listing of them. with the Scott Cat# 5260 Flag Stamp alone having about 44 different varieties listed. I don't know what was in the 2023 Catalog, but the 2024 Specialized Catalog cut way back on the counterfeit listings and mentions that they put a note next to the listings that have counterfeits in the regular section. There are so many that the Scott Catalog now has a separate Catalog just for counterfeits.
At this point, unless you have the new Scott's counterfeit catalog, trying to keep up is a very large undertaking to put it mildly. There is only one Ebay seller (not me) that I have seen that does do a fairly good job with the printed differences of some of them. I won't mention the name, but if you do a search on Ebay in United States stamps of "CF1" no quotes, then you will see them (about 44 when I searched). The Florida Panther was not one of them.
One last note, I am not sure where you ordered a copy, but unless it comes directly from the USPS then there is no guarantee that it will be genuine. Nothing against the sellers, but because of the large number, quality, and how long they have been around, they have no doubt been integrated in legitimate sellers stock .
nsk: Most European countries are too small to counterfeit their stamps. Many of the countries only sell stamps through post offices or retailers in regulated industries. There, simply, is not enough money to be earned by counterfeiting their stamps.
Unlike Royal Mail, Deutsche Post is using the data matrix to prevent use of counterfeit stamps
You would be surprised on just how many European countries are flooded with Chinese fake stamps. Deutsche Post uses rare earth pigments and infrared detection circuitry to sort out the fakes. Data matrices have been faked by the Chinese almost instantly. I don't know about the rare earths but it would not surprise me to see that in the near future (after all, China is the main producer of rare earths...).
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Posted 03/28/2025 3:44 pm
