GB - Downey Heads In Lighthouse Album Question

Question, I consider myself very new to Great Britain collecting, I have a Lighthouse album for the country and a reasonably good collection of Downey heads, I also found a beautifully written explanation of the differences between the Downey heads here on this forum that helped me understand the difference between the dies and types here: https://goscf.com/t/12112&SearchTerms=Downey,heads

However when I tried to apply my recently acquired knoweldge to the Lighthouse album I got confused, the write up refers to Die 1 and 2 then type A, B etc where the Lighthouse pages refer to Types and then dies under it and the numbers don't add up .. can someone help "translate" so I can understand what should go in each space in the album?

Pictures of the album pages attached to further explain - thanks in advance!

There are three (or possibly more) terminologies for dies and/or types. Fortunately, they don't overlap. Here they are:

Die 1A = Die A = Type I Die A
Die 1B = Die B = Type I Die B
Die 2 = Die 2 = Type II

There are also three watermarks: [Imperial] Crown, Simple Cypher and Multiple Cypher, some of which also exist inverted.

It looks as if your album also has spaces for two or more shades of the green and red inks.

Probably no two collectors will agree about how many stamps are needed to make a "complete" set of Downey Heads.

I don't know if it will help you or confuse you further, but here's a listing of the eighteen Downey Heads that I find sufficient for my collection. (SG Specialised numbers first, then SG Concise numbers, then descriptions):

N1, 321/323, ½d Green, Wmk Crown, Die 1A
N2, 324/326, ½d Green, Wmk Crown, Die 1B
N2a, 325Wi, ½d Green, Wmk Crown Inverted, Die 1B
N3, 334/335, ½d Green, Wmk Simple Cypher, Die 1B
N3a, 335Wi, ½d Green, Wmk Simple Cypher Inverted, Die 1B
N4, 338/340, ½d Green, Wmk Crown, Die 2
N5, 344, ½d Green, Wmk Simple Cypher, Die 2
N6, 346/348, ½d Green, Wmk Multiple Cypher, Die 2

N7, 327/328, 1d Red, Wmk Crown, Die 1A
N8, 329/331, 1d Red, Wmk Crown, Die 1B
N8a, 329Wi, 1d Red, Wmk Crown Inverted, Die 1B
N9, 332/333, 1d Scarlet, Wmk Crown, Die 1B
N9a, 332Wi, 1d Scarlet, Wmk Crown Inverted, Die 1B
N10, 336/337, 1d Red, Wmk Simple Cypher, Die 1B
N10a, 336Wi, 1d Red, Wmk Simple Cypher Inverted, Die 1B
N11, 341/343, 1d Scarlet, Wmk Crown, Die 2
N12, 345, 1d Scarlet, Simple Cypher, Die 2
N13, 349/350, 1d Scarlet, Multiple Cypher, Die 2

Looking at the available spaces per type / die and watermark, as well as at the colours that can be read and the order in which they appear, it leaves no doubt that Leuchtturm is following the Stanley Gibbons GB Concise catalogue. It does so in the exact order in which they are listed in that catalogue. The very same catalogue will explain the differences.

That would imply that the stamp on the right of the third row on the second page is not in the correct place. If you take it out of the mount, you may find the printed image behind it is of the 1d stamp (or it names a reddish and not a green colour).

Edit: a die was made (1A) for each value. The stamps printed from plates made from these dies were 'blotchy.' The dies then were deepened (1B). So, these were the same dies (1) that existed in two states (A and B), known as dies 1A and1B.
Then, a new die was made for each value. These were die 2. They existed in one state.

To be very specific:




Stanley Gibbons nrs. 321 - 350, and in that order.

Keep in mind many people, incorrectly, assume that when three colours are listed and they have three stamps in different colours, they have the three listed colours.

NSK is right. You have thirty spaces for the thirty stamps listed in SG Concise. So you have spaces for shades (which require expert knowledge to distinguish reliably) but no spaces for inverted watermarks (which are usually easy for even a beginner to see)!

But if you acquire the inverted watermarks (which are all cheaper than some of the shades), there's white space available in which to add them. And after that there are booklet panes and controls and a pretty nearly infinite amount of fun to be had with what appear, at first glance, to be at most only four different stamps!

Thanks all thats amazing, ok I think I got the hang of it for most of them but I was wondering how does everybody diffrentiate between the different colours? I have the SG colour chart but is there any other tool that can help me identify colours?

You will need a reference collection, a reliable dealer who has access to reference material, or an SG Colour Guide that was issued in the 1920s.

In the end, many colours are misidentified. Here is an example of an auctioneer who is also a dealer and claimed to be a GB expert may get it badly wrong.

This stamp was offered by another dealer specialising in British stamp who even posted the certificate that should make unsuspecting buyers believe the stamp was an extremely scarce colour. Not a chance!

For those who like a challenge: the first pic holds a clear clue it is not as described.The sloppy certificate holds another clue the stamp is not from the strip of three for which it was issued.

OK can you please explain why an SG colorguide issued in the 1920's? I have a much newer one and always assumed that the older ones' paper might have yellowed with age? I vaguely remember that old colorguides for print have an expiry date due to that reason.

I've got the revised SG colour guide from the 1930s. The guide contains 100 labels printed by Perkins Bacon so basically printed using the same inks as their stamps. Present-day pricing appears to be about 30 GBP (eBay, 6 May).

I also have the Colour Index of the Society of Dyers and Colourists, first edition January (371 pages, weight 3.3 kilos). Given by the Society as a prize to Robert Alan Lonsdale Eccles in 1937, so I presume there wasn't a second edition. Page 309 gives the recipe for Prussian Blue, or rather it gives half-a-dozen ways of making it, and then goes on to say that "Steel Blue and Milori Blue are of a lighter shade, devoid of metallic lustre, and of a softer consistency, and are obtained by a special process not generally known."

This:




The inks and paper used at the time, printed by the same process, and with the colour designations used at the time. If stored correctly, they should provide a good reference for contemporary stamps.

Modern colour keys are not printed in inks used to print stamps, the paper, if it is paper, is not that used for stamps. They are made for more modern stamps. GB has, primarily, used the photogravure process since late 1934.

Fair enough - so would this guide be "not old enough"? https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2672384...colour+guide

No, too modern for the GvR surface printed issues and will suffer from ageing.

Hmm… that emerald green!

So where can I buy / find that old one to purchase?

I got mine at an auction, where the auction house had just tipped a deceased collector's albums, loose stamps and covers into a cardboard box. I see someone on another forum has scanned in the whole guide.