Show Your 1851-61 Era Cancellations And Postal Markings

Ray, there is nothing that says an "old stamp" use has to be from 1861. There are quite a few that are later. Here is one I have, from 63.

Txstamp, this is the nicesed cover I have seen!!!!

Here is a "possible" very late usage of Scott #11A -- position 97L2L -- with a banknote era duplex killer. I qualify as "possible" because the stamp is off cover -- so no way of knowing if it was actually accepted as payment (versus not recognized)? Interesting nonetheless.

Carrier rate with a one cent Type II, Plate 12 "A" relief (4R12?) with a nice hexagonal Philadelphia cancel. Both stamps with grid killers.

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I was looking through my 1851-61 covers and took another look at this one. ..an 1860 West-to-East cover with "via Panama" crossed out and "Overland" written in. It is franked with a #35 Type V 10¢ stamp. The 10¢ stamp in confusing here - the rate should have been 6¢ - even if it had gone via Panama. What is going on here?

Are you sure? My notes say the rate from 1851-1855 was 6c for over 3000 miles, but from 4/1/1855 - 7/1/1863 the rate was 10c for over 3000 miles. In 1860 it would have been 10c.

Ha - thanks @ZebraMan - I was confused. . .you are right.

This was carried on the Butterfield Overland Mail Route.

If it had not been endorsed at all it would have gone Overland as well. As of Dec 1859 the Butterfield route was the default, instead of Panama.

edit: rate was 10c via either route (Panama vs Overland)

This one is interesting - An American Packet Letter from New Orleans to Nantes featuring
a 14/15 pair, a forwarding agent stamp, Red NEW YORK AM. PACKET SEP 5 circle (Simpson's p. 291, No. 17), and the steamer carrying this stamp was lost at sea a few months later - and a message in a bottle turned up later indicating that the ship hit an iceberg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Pacific_(1849)

It is accompanied by a note from Ashbrook (I think) noting the 21¢ rate only "paid only to England" with 5¢ paying "US internal" and 16¢ "Sea."

I have a few questions:
- What is the rate, more explicitly, especially the 5¢ "US internal" rating?
- Is there an online or otherwise reference for trans-Atlantic rates during this era?
- Are both notes by Ashbrook (the 1st on clearly is)?






- 10¢ pair is listed as 23L/Type III and 33L/Type II
- Forwarding agent is ED LOQUET NEW-ORLEANS, listed as Rowe E1

Back of cover. . .

@philazilla - I'll try to reply to your questions, in multiple parts ... but I'll defer on details of the rates, since I think the 5c book reference below should answer your questions. Feel free to ask again if it doesn't.

First - what references are available for Transatlantic mail?

By Far, the best one is "Understanding Transatlantic Mail", by Richard F Winter.
It is 2 volumes, Volume 1 is fairly expensive, as its in demand and out of print, I believe. It contains the most common treaties and rates. Vol 2 may still be available from the APS, and it covers some of the less common rates/treaties, but if one is diving into transatlantic mail, both volumes are a must. These are comprehensive, unbelievably well done books. There is nothing else close to them.

That said, I was just looking around for what's available online, that might contain good summaries, and Richard Frajola's 5c book, here:
https://www.rfrajola.com/FiveCentBook.pdf

actually has some very nice summary coverage of basic transatlantic mail/rates. Go to Chapter 5 on page 43 for starters. For your cover, you will want to read about the "British Treaty" of 1848, effective in early 1849. That should get you going.

To understand what ships/steamers are American packets vs British packets, and to go a bit deeper into the shipping side of this, the book is: "North Atlantic Mail Sailings 1840-75" by Hubbard and Winter. It is here:
https://www.uspcs.org/wp-content/up...evisions.pdf

The first note on the two-sided card is clearly Ashbrook, in his typical printed style and handwriting.

The second note is definitely "not" Ashbrook. The #652 note. That actually resembles Chase's handwriting and style. I suspect either @ioagoa or @classic can confirm or rebut that, as they will know I'm sure.

In the 5c book, Chapter 6 will further help you since your letter is going to France.
The '8' marking comes from France, and indicates 8 decimes due, for a letter weighing up to 7.5 grams or about 1/4 ounce. The 21c prepayment just got it to Britain - via an American Packet (Collins line). The addressee has to cough up 8 decimes for the transit from Britain to France.

From North Atlantic Mail Sailings page 105, your cover's route:
Departed New York Sep 5, 1855 on Steamer Pacific.
Arrived Liverpool Sep 15.
The orange marking on the back shows when it transited Britain (liverpool likely). The Black Calais marking on the front, shows when it entered the French mail system, and took the train from Calais to Paris (Sep 17). Then there is a Paris transit marking, and finally an arrival marking for Nantes on the reverse.

One way I like to think about British Treaty mail, is to consider that the British Empire at this time was large, and they had shipping routes all over the globe. So the concept, simplified, is if you are sending a letter to some foreign country other than Britain, then send it via British Open mail, so it will go to Britain and they will use their established routes to get it wherever it needs to go in the world. When it arrives at the destination, whatever additional postage is due beyond Britain will typically get assessed there - for example 8 decimes due to the addressee here.

The US did not have all of these connections so well established yet. The British Cunard shipping line was king of the Atlantic, so to speak, with US competition growing, but still much smaller. Because of this, mail carried on American packets, like yours, is sometimes a little more desirable, as its less common than mail carried by British packets. Except in 1855, when your letter was carried. This is because of the Crimean war going on. The British diverted many of their ships to support the war, instead of going back and forth to the US (carrying mail). As a result, the American owned Collins line, carried a much higher percentage of the mail in 1855. You see a huge spike in the proliferation of 21c rate covers vs 5c rate covers in 1855 as a result.

Finally, your cover is part of the Garnier correspondence. This is a very large and well-known correspondence. Your cover shows no evidence of fakery, but for your amusement and further education, you can see a write-up of one of the more famous fake covers of recent times - the Klep cover here. It is a Garnier cover.
https://www.rfrajola.com/opinions/klep.htm

edit: Oh yes, and Ed Loquet was a very prolific forwarder.

I guess I will use this as an opportunity to share a recent acquisition of a 5c #12 cover, also to France, via British Open Mail, but carried by British Packet (Cunard line). Note the prepayment of only 5c (vs 21c), and the higher amount due, of 13 decimes, vs 8 for American packet as a result.



Anyone who cares to read a little more about it can do so here -
https://www.philamercury.com/covers.php?id=30150

Addressing postal markings: The month plug was not fully seated in the New Orleans CDS, as evidenced by the stronger inking of SEP as opposed to the city, or lower rim part.

Also, its unusual to see the other postal markings as well struck as they are on this cover.

edit: I'll also point back to @stallzer's cover, which is paying the same 5c rate, Garnier correspondence, etc, but shows 26 decimes due, since the letter weighed over 7.5 grams; i.e. was roughly 1/4-1/2 oz - a double weight in France, but a single weight in the US, which rated letters by 1/2 oz instead of 1/4.
https://goscf.com/t/89572&whichpage=2#830884

Thanks @txstamp! That is very helpful information - and your 5¢ cover is interesting and helpful to understanding transatlantic mail of the period.

A couple follow-up comments & questions
- The handwriting on that 2nd note looks like it might be Chase to me too. Looks like there is a missing note he refers to - he's not referring to the Ashbrook note.
- Is there any accessible info on the "Garnier correspondence?"

Probably, but I don't know of a specific reference. Google searching might show something.

edit: for continuity, I was asked a question about the origin of this letter ...

So the New Orleans CDS might be Aug 23, if I'm reading that correctly. This letter entered the US mails at New Orleans on that date as forwarded by Loquet. It could have been privately carried to him from wherever - or originated in New Orleans.

It looks like this is a folded letter - the thing to do is open it up and check the dateline. The dateline of a letter will typically show you the place of origin and usually a date the letter was written. That will mostly complete the story.

edit: Transatlantic mail is one of my areas of interest. I find the whole way it was done back in this era to be fascinating. Also, one gets to obtain a lot of nice stamps on the covers for some of the higher rates. Its the best of both worlds: stamps+postal history. I can post some more over time if people want to see more, but I'll try to throttle it a bit, as I very much want anyone to participate in this thread.