Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Stamp Community Forum
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Intaglio and Photogravure  
 

 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
1157 Posts
Posted 09/28/2017   8:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Message
I was reading some descriptions and it was stated that Photogravure is a type intaglio printing. If that is true, is there a specific name for the intaglio printing associated with engraved stamps?

*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***

Send note to Staff
Al

Pillar Of The Community
United States
1791 Posts
Posted 09/28/2017   8:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add littleriverphil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Line engraving.

From the glossary;
Intaglio
"Italian for ""in recess.'' A form of printing in which the inked image is produced by that portion of the plate sunk below the surface. Line engraving and gravure are forms of intaglio printing."

Photogravure
A modern stamp-printing process that is a form of intaglio printing. Plates are made photographically and chemically, rather than by hand engraving a die and transferring it to a plate. The ink in this process rests in the design depressions. The surface of the printing plate is wiped clean. The paper is forced into the depressions and picks up the ink, in a manner much like the line-engraved printing process
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
1157 Posts
Posted 09/28/2017   8:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Line engraved is the word then. I knew photogravure used etched plates but did not associate it with intalgio since every instance I saw it references was in regards to line engraved.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Al
Valued Member
United Kingdom
237 Posts
Posted 09/29/2017   05:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 65170 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Angore, Your question is more suited to the area of this site relating to stamp production, but I would expand on the response by littleriverphil as follows:

Intaglio (AKA recess, line-engraving, copperplate, steel engraving or siderography)
The stamp design is incised into the printing plate to varying depths below the surface. Ink is applied to the plate, excess is wiped off and the paper is pressed under pressure against the plate, actually squeezing into the inked grooves, extracting it and transferring the design to the paper.

An intaglio printed stamp has a distinct raised feel and has been the 'process of choice' for the philatelist since its first use by the British firm of Perkins, Bacon & Petch on the Penny Black design of 1840 through to 1880, but was also later used for high values between 1913-77 and 1988-2003 and on occasional special issues and within a 1999 prestige stamp book, etc.

[Photo]gravure (AKA Rotogravure, gravure or Rotaglio)
An intaglio-based (i.e. below the surface) printing system typically running at high speed, it is best suited to producing large print runs (owing to high set-up costs) and can use either plates or cylinders. It is also commercially known as rotogravure when producing magazines (think Sunday newspaper supplements) and is a term that is infrequently applied to the production of postage stamps. Rotogravure (a merging of parts of the words 'rotary' and 'photogravure'), by definition always uses a rotary press and cylinders. Rotaglio was a commercial brand name.

Until recently, collectors would have only encountered stamps that employed a photographic process in manufacturing the cylinders (hence photogravure), but, following the introduction of computer-engraved cylinders, there was a need to differentiate, as photography is no longer a part of the cylinder manufacturing process, hence 'gravure' now being the modern term.

Gravure printing uses fluid inks applied to the image carrier and held in microscopic cells recessed into the plate/cylinder. Excess ink is removed with a doctor blade (think of a scraper) and the ink is transferred from the cells directly onto the substrate. It is generally used for print runs of more than ten million stamps (some disagree on current thresholds) and offers increased security due to its high set-up costs when compared with offset.

Although sheet-fed gravure is achievable, it is more normally web-fed printing that is utilised. [Photo]gravure has been the mainstream process for British stamp production since 1934.

GLENN MORGAN webmaster of http://stampprinters.info


Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
485 Posts
Posted 09/29/2017   2:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add GregAlex to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
To be accurate, siderography is the process of tranferring a master (positive) image from a cylinder die by rolling it onto a steel plate to create a (recessed) intaglio printing plate. Not specifically part of the printing process. Call me an intaglio wonk.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
1157 Posts
Posted 09/29/2017   5:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the supplemental information.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Al
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1418 Posts
Posted 09/29/2017   10:04 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Gravure printing uses fluid inks applied to the image carrier and held in microscopic cells recessed into the plate/cylinder. Excess ink is removed with a doctor blade (think of a scraper) and the ink is transferred from the cells directly onto the substrate. It is generally used for print runs of more than ten million stamps (some disagree on current thresholds) and offers increased security due to its high set-up costs when compared with offset.


I have heard his over and over, but while a gravure printed stamp looks very different than an intaglio printed stamp, a gravure printed stamp does not look very different than an offset printed stamp. I'm not sure I could tell them apart without a magnifier and even then I'm not sure I could always tell offset from gravure. So how does gravure offer increased security when a forger can simply make an offset forgery of a gravure printed stamp???
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
1157 Posts
Posted 09/30/2017   06:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angore to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I went back and looked at USPS postal bulletin data sheets and they noted that one of the 41¢ cent Liberty was gravure and Scott lists it as photogravure.

It was the booklet issue printed by Avery Dennison on the DNK press. It lists the engraver as WRE/Color Tech. If the plates were computer generated (likely) then the statement of photogravure would be inaccurate.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Al
Edited by angore - 09/30/2017 07:27 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1418 Posts
Posted 10/01/2017   01:48 am  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think Scott calls all gravure as photogravure by habit. They also continue to call new US service inscribed precancels as Bureau precancels despite not being printed by the Bureau anymore.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
United States Postal Service, Now on eBay!United States Postal Service, Now on eBay!
New Forum TopicsRecently Active Forum Topics
  Did USPS cut stamps to "show off selvage"?
  Columbian Page with #230-238
  Creatively redefining the term "Major Vignette Shift."
  Do you think that this movie prop cover is real?
  Wish I had this much optimistic wishful thinking
  I found a Scott #544 on a postcard!
  1941 Sun-Yat-Sen triple error misprints from Hong Kong
  Found Stamp in old Japanese Book. Please help to identify
  1870's three cent green....mark and color ?
  1870's Fifteen cent ... secret mark?
  237: double impression, kiss print, or just really crappy printing?
  U349a? It looks OK but does anyone have any ideas?
  Identifying manila paper and color question
  Thoughts on these 2 French stamps?
  A small rant about demanding eBay buyers...
  Ebay's "See Full Item Description" - Check your listings.
  Italy - an interesting stamp collateral from 1956
  Quick question for someone familiar with Siegel Auctions
  Unusual 3 cent 1932 Washington Verticle Pair - value?
  A tax paid fragment item
  Help with Isle of Pabay Stamps
  Twentieth Century Mr. Zip help?
  early Greek Hermes stamps
  Cancelled Sheets of stamps from Poland
  This lot is guaranteed to make your jaw drop

  Finding the Right Society to Join
  Columbian Page with #230-238
  Stamp Collecting, The News Of It's Death Are Greatly Exaggerated.
  France 1966 Coat of arms Saint-Lô
  Do you think that this movie prop cover is real?
  A small rant about demanding eBay buyers...
  Identifying manila paper and color question
  1941 Sun-Yat-Sen triple error misprints from Hong Kong
  1870's Fifteen cent ... secret mark?
  I found a Scott #544 on a postcard!
  Did USPS cut stamps to "show off selvage"?
  237: double impression, kiss print, or just really crappy printing?
  Unusual 3 cent 1932 Washington Verticle Pair - value?
  Cover Calendar for month and day -PICS
  Wish I had this much optimistic wishful thinking
  Metropex 2017: October 20-21 Roseville, Minnesota
  eBay Dealers - murmur...murmur...MURMUR!
  Plate Proof needed of NFLD Queen Alexandra
  Creatively redefining the term "Major Vignette Shift."
  The Stamps of Turkey : On Steiner Pages.
  Ebay's "See Full Item Description" - Check your listings.
  What Did You Do Philatelically: Today or Recently?
  Scott - Michel Conversion Charts
  Christmas Around the World 2017
  Quick question for someone familiar with Siegel Auctions

Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2017 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2005 - 2017 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.55 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05