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Help Identify City and Cancel date, 1/2d KGV Australia  
 

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Posted 11/12/2017   10:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Message
This one is confusing. The orange 1/2d with single watermark (Scott 20) was printed in October 1923, but first day of issue was 8, November, 1923 per ACSC 66. This is a marginal line copy, so must come from Electro 6 or 7. The cancellation is probably Kogarah, New South Wales, but the date looks like March 2, 1919. Is this just a gross error on the part of the cancellation, or am I not seeing the last two numbers of the year, assuming 19xx? Any help would be appreciated.


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Australia
3253 Posts
Posted 11/13/2017   12:36 am  Show Profile Check KGV Collector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add KGV Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
2 MR 19 is the date. Looks like a very standard cancel to me.

The day is present. The month is present. The year is present.

But yes.... 1st printing Orange Issued 1923 ~ 1925 Die I single wmk perf 14.25 X 14 comb ~ 3 shade groups.

One thing I have done is looked at dates on KGV's to the point of using digital magnifier and I got pretty good at it especially on penny reds.



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Australia
381 Posts
Posted 11/13/2017   03:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rob041256 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The area is definitely "Kogarah". Looking at the perfs thoroughly I noticed lighter remnants of ink.

In my humble opinion it most likely had two other numbers.

As these stamps were also printed in April 1924 and August 1925 respectively the two last numbers could be anywhere from one of the first two printings of 1923 cancelled from 1924 onward.

Rob
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Edited by Rob041256 - 11/13/2017 03:36 am
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Posted 11/13/2017   11:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

In my humble opinion it most likely had two other numbers.


Have you seen an older example with a 4 digit year format? I'd love to see an example, if you could post one. Thanks.
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Posted 11/13/2017   11:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Wouldn't the date be shifted more to the right if it had a two-digit year?

Otherwise it wouldn't be centred under KOGARAH.
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Nigel
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Canada
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Posted 11/13/2017   12:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add itma to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
To my eyes, there appears to be too much space to the right of 19' for the year to be in a 4-digit format.
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Posted 11/13/2017   12:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
there appears to be too much space to the right of 19' for the year to be in a 4-digit format.


Agreed. The only viable choices for the next digit would be a 2 or a 3, if it were a 4-digit format. Both of those options would show a small hint of the number, both at the top loop and the bottom loop.

So, I guess the postal official just put in the wrong date stamp for that date. A keeper anyway.

Thanks to everyone for their input.
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Australia
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Posted 11/13/2017   4:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Rob041256 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I originally thought that there was too much spacing for any other digits, I thought I might be incorrect.

Quote:
Have you seen an older example with a 4 digit year format? I'd love to see an example, if you could post one. Thanks.

No, I don't think I have Partime, I must have been going through a moment of madness.

Rob
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Australia
3253 Posts
Posted 11/13/2017   4:57 pm  Show Profile Check KGV Collector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add KGV Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
KGV postmarks are just the best for scratching your head at times.

There is a smudge of ink in the 1/2d but I think it is just that a smudge.

It still looks to me to be as it reads. The PO worker most probably had a bad hair day.

There is too much space after the 19 for more numbers and there is more than enough room for the year to be separate from the 19 to be seen.

Looks like I agree with everyone else.

The place of postmark is correct. Lived about 6km from there once.
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Edited by KGV Collector - 11/13/2017 5:27 pm
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Posted 11/13/2017   5:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A "moment of madness" or not, I have another follow-up question. When would it have been appropriate to show a 4-digit year? I am guessing that the early part of any century, it would not be necessary. I mean, everyone in 1910 knew that a 10 was shorthand for 1910 and no one would have thought that it was shorthand for 2010. But as you get closer to the middle of a century, wouldn't it make sense?

Hmm. I'll have to look a little more closely at my postmarks now.
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Posted 11/13/2017   5:29 pm  Show Profile Check KGV Collector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add KGV Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Even though I have looked at huge amount of KGV postmarks I have no idea.
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Australia
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Posted 11/14/2017   6:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add castor to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Have to agree with all the above, if it was a four digit date we would be able to see a partial amount of a third digit.
But it does raise the question about the various types of stamps used. For example here is a Western Australia black swan with a four digit year for 1907. I also have found a kangaroo/map with 1913 on it.

Eulaminna (abandoned town) - Renamed from Anaconda RO 15/10/1906; PO c.-/7/1908; closed 16/11/1908.

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Edited by castor - 11/14/2017 7:06 pm
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Posted 11/14/2017   7:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Castor.

May I have permission to submit your scan to my local Philatelic Society please?

You may have a previously unknown/not seen cancelling hammer impression.
(albeit I do not understand the bracketed P&TO 1908)

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Edited by rod222 - 11/14/2017 7:17 pm
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Posted 11/14/2017   8:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Castor. Thanks for posting the great example. I now have lots more stamps to search through.

Great and interesting strike for the town letters.
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Australia
50 Posts
Posted 11/15/2017   11:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add castor to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Go for it Rod, glad it is of help.

Regarding the P&TO, from Wikipedia, " A mail receiver was in place but no telegraph station." Could it be that in 1908 it became a Postal & Telegraph Office until closing later that same year?

Partime - I wish I had your problem, that is one of three W.A. stamps I have - all 1d black swans

Have we seen strikes like this before - ie the lettering for Eulaminna?

A reference I have just found that may be of interest - http://www.postmarks.co.za/ The Australian states aren't very far through however.
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Edited by castor - 11/15/2017 1:47 pm
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Posted 11/17/2017   01:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Have we seen strikes like this before - ie the lettering for Eulaminna?


Referred to as a "chattered" Pmk, the postal counter was usually covered with hide leather, to prevent this sort of thing. The hammer comes down so hard, the device "jumps" and makes 2 impressions.

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Edited by rod222 - 11/17/2017 03:34 am
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