Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Stamp Community Forum
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

When is a catalog FDC price appropriate?  
 

 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Valued Member

United States
6 Posts
Posted 01/09/2018   11:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add dancer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Message
If a cancelled FDC is considered used, when would an FDC catalog price be used? Is there such a thing as an uncancelled FDC? Please explain. Thanks.

*** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. ***
Send note to Staff

Valued Member
United States
150 Posts
Posted 01/09/2018   2:25 pm  Show Profile Check ggreve's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ggreve to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
No, there is no such thing as an uncancelled FDC. It is not a first day cover unless it is canceled on the first day of issue. By definition all stamps on a FDC are used. The standard two column unused and used lists do not offer FDC values. To get the appropriate catalog price, you will need a specialized catalog that lists FDC values.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
6 Posts
Posted 01/09/2018   3:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dancer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I am using the 2016 Harris catalog, which has an FDC price column. So, that is the price I should apply to a given issue or issue set, correct?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
525 Posts
Posted 01/09/2018   7:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stampman2002 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dancer, welcome to the Forum!



Perhaps a little clarification will help. The "FDC" price you are seeing is for the most common cacheted cover with that stamp on it. Here's an example of a common type of First Day Cover (FDC):




Now, if you have a stamp which is no longer on cover, it would be considered used only. Generally speaking, stamps from around the 1920's and earlier which have a readable date on them would possible First Day cancellations, but that is an entirely different matter.

Hope this helps.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
6 Posts
Posted 01/10/2018   10:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dancer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Stampman2002 and ggreve. You have both clarified my concerns.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
735 Posts
Posted 01/11/2018   9:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kimo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Like all just issued catalogs for all types of philately from stamps to FDCs to whatever, "catalog value" typically is higher than what an item would cost on the open market. Sometimes it is the other way around, especially if there is something special or unique or condition is outstanding or such, but generally "catalog value" is not a good indicator of actual value. They do tend to be good for relative values of things, though. For example, something with a catalog value of $10 is usually harder to find and would be higher priced than something in equal condition that has a catalog value of $2, though in this case it is not necessarily exactly 5 times more to actually buy. Catalogs are good for identification, relative scarcity, and can be good for market values if one knows the going rule of thumb for reducing catalog values to get to the actual commercial values. One should also keep in mind that catalog values have a floor price that is based on the costs of doing business for a well established dealer with substantial overhead to keep that item in stock. You can see that floor price by looking for the lowest catalog valued items in a catalog. So, if for example a catalog shows a price of $2 and that is the lowest value of things it lists, then that is considered to be the cost for the dealer to stock, advertise, sell, cover overhead, etc. for an item that has little or no wholesale value. So, if a collector wants to be able to relate a catalog value to an actual commercial value, the best thing to do is to spend 6 months on eBay tracking actual prices paid (ignore starting bids on lots that do not sell - those are meaningless) and focus on the lower prices paid for similar items. For example, watch the auctions for larger lots of FDCs and you will begin to see what the wholesale prices are for them. For rare FDCs, you should watch the auctions for individual items. Keep good records and in 6 months or so you will get a good feel for actual values.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Germany
537 Posts
Posted 01/12/2018   03:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
what I wonder since long time - and it's similar to this topic, so I post here: what about a single stamp (off cover) with a cancel of the first day - is there a value even close to the FDC given in the catalogue then, or just the normal stamp value with a little bit premium, but to too much (let's say 10-30% on top) ? I often look for dates on cancels, especially on older stamp around 1900-1930.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
735 Posts
Posted 01/12/2018   11:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kimo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For stamps off cover I think that it is a matter of the age of the stamp. For example very early stamps from heavily collected countries with a readable cancelations would have premiums, based pretty much on just how early they are such as from the middle 1800s when there was little to no collector thought about trying to make a first day of use. Late 1800s and early 1900s I would think there is some premium on loose stamps but not as much as the really early ones. More modern ones from the 1930s to the present I do not think there would be much if any premium since actual first day covers for those are generally not hard to find.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Germany
537 Posts
Posted 01/12/2018   12:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you. yes, before 1900 and until 1930 is more interesting than later. the middle 1800s I nearly never find any date, but on bank note stamps and especially Washington-Franklins and other stamps of that time there are dates to find sometimes. I always wondered why there is a huge premium for FDC (even after 1900 like Alaska Yukon or Hudon Fulton or also the regular issue 1920 in some denominations) but there is no catalogue mentioning of "first date cancels" at all.

To construct an example: the FDC of 1 dollar Lincoln memorial (1920) is 7.000 USD. The value of a normal used 571 is 0.65 USD. Where between these two numbers would a stamp off cover be with a clear first date cancel (or even before the FDC)?

(was I correct with the term "first day cancel", or is there a special term to search for? I never saw or found any stamp at any auction with a first day cancel)

PS: No, I don't have such a stamp like mentioned above. Just would like to know.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by stamperix - 01/12/2018 12:18 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
525 Posts
Posted 01/12/2018   4:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stampman2002 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Fair questions.

Let's think this through, now. Given the price for Scott 571, that you used, at .65 for an ordinary used single, and a First Day Cover price of $7,000.00, that's a HUGE difference.

While I suppose it is possible someone soaked some off cover in the 1920's or 1930's, it is unlikely. The reason there is such a vast difference is the scarcity of the item on cover, on that date.

First day cover collecting hadn't been created, as we know it, at the time this stamp was issued. Knowing that, it increases the possibility that a first day of issue dated cancel could potentially show up on an individual stamp where the cancel was socked on the nose. It would be more likely to be seen on a block of four or larger, if such existed or was used on that day.

So, while there is a possibility, I would not rate it very high. If you happen to come across a large lot of this stamp for a give-away price, you might get it and look through it. I wouldn't be expecting to find one, though.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Germany
537 Posts
Posted 01/12/2018   5:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you for the explanation, I didn't think about the point that the "on cover" would be a factor of the premium but mainly the date. But we have to say also, that there are many of those expensive FDC in Scott where a used stamp "on cover" (not FDC) is nearly no premium. I think it's really interesting that no "first day cancellation" nearly ever appears at auctions, for me they would be highly collectable (and I will have an even closer look on them now). I only found one at Siegel database:
https://siegelauctions.com/lots.php...-793-lot-167

While I have to admit that it's a 1861 issue, I would guess that also a first day cancellation of a bank note stamp and even a Washington-Franklin should be something special.

It's actually surprising that there seems to be no big market around this, as I can't imagine that no collector looks at the dates and nobody found a first day cancellation of a bank note stamp (or other 1861s), so the found stamps (defined as such) seem to just not get into the market.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
735 Posts
Posted 01/13/2018   11:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kimo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For the very early ones, there was no real concept of first day covers so one might have better luck looking for terms such as first day of use or earliest known usage. As for values, like everything it depends not only on rarity but also demand. One can have something of which only a few are known but it will have little value unless there is a demand by a substantial number of collectors who are actively competing to buy it and willing to go deep into their wallets to own it.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
United States Postal Service, Now on eBay!United States Postal Service, Now on eBay!
New Forum TopicsRecently Active Forum Topics
  Program or software for cancels
  When a typographical error doesn't really make any difference.
  Security Bank Note Co. Proof, can someone give me insight to this piece?
  Australian Historic Homesteads - Prepaid Envelopes 1988
  A new test stamp variety?
  Ebay Lot So Bad I Am Speechless
  50 years of jet travel
  What countries does Scott 2016 san-z cover?
  program to identify precancels
  US precancels with full state names
  Canadian Revenues Valuations
  Turkey in Asia Overprints
  'ungummed' 'unused' full sheet of 1990 stamps: why?
  Damaged Stamp Grading
  Canal Zone J27 plate block with full offset of plate number 123718 on reverse
  Help With 1895 Korea 6a Stamp
  Avatar request
  MPO 603 - Debert Camp Censor handstamp
  Need Binder for Davo Pages
  Canada Post Distribution Problem????
  Czechoslovakia Scott 45a, Minkus 52, SG 27, Imperforate 1919-1920 Hradcany Prague
  Canal Zone 18b vs. 20
  Home Made Album Page Prototype - Thoughts / Suggestions?
  Rocky Mountain Stamp Show 2018
  Is this unusual ... ...?

  I would love to buy this but..... the postage cost!
  Anthony's LLC Disminal PF Report Card = Follow Up to 10/23/17 Discussion
  Need Binder for Davo Pages
  Quick question for Steiner Page Binders
  Paying 70% of Scott - ripped off?
  US precancels with full state names
  Help with old greek postcard
  Stamps cancelled with pen squiggles
  Australian Historic Homesteads - Prepaid Envelopes 1988
  Turkey in Asia Overprints
  Collecting by Engraver
  The Stamps of Australia : On Steiner Pages.
  Program or software for cancels
  Japanese Translation Please.
  A new test stamp variety?
  New, free online The Foreign Mail Cancellations Handbook
  Bare Feet on Stamps ' , ' , ' , '
  Your self designed album pages
  What Did You Do Philatelically: Today or Recently?
  Ebay Lot So Bad I Am Speechless
  Perhaps the most absurd eBay lot of all time
  Formosa (?) Help Please
  Oldest American-published stamp album?
  How would I start / continue to identify this 10 cent Jefferson?
  Damaged Stamp Grading

Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2018 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2005 - 2018 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.93 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05