Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Stamp Community Forum
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Why are these PSE certs different?  
 

 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...

United States
733 Posts
Posted 02/13/2018   3:54 pm  Show Profile Check KRelyea's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add KRelyea to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I was looking at an eBay item and decided to check on a cert that was shown. The eBay cert shows Grade 70 but the PSE database shows the stamp as ungraded? I also noticed other little differences. Does anybody know if this is legitimate?

eBay;




PSE Database;




Thanks

Ken
Send note to Staff

Valued Member
United States
243 Posts
Posted 02/13/2018   4:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ananthveerappan to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The eBay one looks more convincing though !
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
134 Posts
Posted 02/13/2018   5:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add howell1018 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not an expert, but my guess is the owner submitted the stamp fearful of the grade he was going to get, but confident that it was genuine, so he paid for a graded and ungraded cert in case the graded one was not good enough they could discard the graded cert. Apparently they were good with the 7. Either that or I'm totally wrong.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
134 Posts
Posted 02/13/2018   5:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add howell1018 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I looked again. I think I'm totally wrong.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
884 Posts
Posted 02/13/2018   9:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dudley to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Perhaps the image from the PSE database, which is apparently just a template and not a scan or replica of the actual issued certificate, simply had incorrect or incomplete data entered. User error.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3523 Posts
Posted 02/13/2018   11:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Can one be a paper cert. and the other is a digital scan off their computer files .
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
281 Posts
Posted 02/13/2018   11:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wtcrowe to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As the graded certificate includes "grading matters.com" in the masthead it is probably a later certificate even though the dates are the same. I would assume that PSE failed to update their computer records.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
733 Posts
Posted 02/14/2018   12:27 am  Show Profile Check KRelyea's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add KRelyea to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
On the PSE website there is a Cert Verification page with this:




The result of this search is what I show.

Here are a couple more examples;













Note the Luxembourg #4. Grade VF-XF 85, Mint OGnh and under that

"it is genuine used" I guess PSE was having a really bad day.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United Kingdom
945 Posts
Posted 02/14/2018   02:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tim H to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Alarm bells should be ringing here. The expertising committees of every certifying authority has rules about what is to appear as a minimum in the certificate. A certifying authority quite simply does not "have a bad day" even though the grading itself is, by definition, a subjective process.

It would be well worth checking directly with someone on the PSE expertising committee about this before going further.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by Tim H - 02/14/2018 03:05 am
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
3766 Posts
Posted 02/14/2018   03:28 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The problem is that the PSE cert verification pages do NOT show images of the actual paper certs. Rather they are virtual "reconstructions" of the cert information. The frames, PSE logo, and stamp image are individual image files and all of the text are actual text characters.

It looks like they are using Adobe Muse embedded PDF technology and there are mismatches or data errors.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
733 Posts
Posted 02/14/2018   08:51 am  Show Profile Check KRelyea's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add KRelyea to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The "used/OGNH stamp is shown on both the paper and electronic version.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1693 Posts
Posted 02/16/2018   9:46 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don;t recall ever seeing a paper cert saying Grade: Ungraded
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Moderator
Learn More...
5103 Posts
Posted 02/17/2018   02:30 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dan is correct. PSE obviously has a database which contains the certification info. When faced with the issue of publishing the certs online, which would you do?
1. Scan and post every single paper cert
2. Build a single software equivalent (template) of a cert and then populate it the existing data in the database?

One of the biggest aspects of using a foundational database to publish content online is that you do not have to code and write every single page. Say, for example, you wanted to publish a webpage for each stamp for a country and the country has issued 4500 stamps. Would you want to code and maintain 4500 separate web pages (one for each stamp)? Or would you write one webpage which populates itself with data from a database when a request is made to view a certain stamp? Kind of a no-brainer for them to do this correctly with a database.
Don

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
2770 Posts
Posted 02/17/2018   08:59 am  Show Profile Check jogil's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
One has an embossed seal on the upper left corner while the other one does not. I would trust the one with the embossed seal more.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by jogil - 02/17/2018 09:05 am
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
3766 Posts
Posted 02/17/2018   09:31 am  Show Profile Check revenuecollector's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add revenuecollector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is a case where PSE's intent to "simulate" the certificate, while well-intentioned, was misguided, as we can see based on all of the resulting confusion in this thread. It would have been far better had they taken the PF's approach, which is to clearly post just the stamp image and the text opinion, and not worry about all the extraneous imagery. People can't tell images of the real paper certs from the virtual reconstructions.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
733 Posts
Posted 02/17/2018   2:42 pm  Show Profile Check KRelyea's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add KRelyea to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I didn't start this topic to pick on the PSE. I was looking at a collection on eBay;

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MASSIVE-IN....m1438.l2649

If you use the link at the bottom to see the pictures you can find the stamps with certs starting around picture #175. I thought the Denmark #10 looked kind of ratty to have a Gr 70 cert. so I checked with the PSE verification page to make sure the seller wasn't cheating.

I'd be pretty annoyed with the PSE if I paid to get a Graded Cert and when I tried to sell the item on eBay their verification system didn't agree with the cert they sold me.

As for the USED Luxembourg #4 that is called a Vf-XF 85 Mint OGnh,
I can't imagine what folks would say if Anthonies made that mistake.


Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Promoting the integrity of internet philatelic dealers. Please join us so buyers can buy with confidence.Bid Online on Live auctions. Stamps, Coins, Fine Art, Jewelery, Collectibles, Antique, Furniture, Wines & Spirits, Collector Cars, Fashion.What's on your wall? Check out our handmade, screen printed stamp art. Perfect for your collector room, office and more. Buy online today!United States Postal Service, Now on eBay!Genuine H.E. Harris products and quality postage stamps at www.whitman.com. POSTAGE STAMPS, STAMP ALBUMS & ANNUAL SUPPLEMENTS!
New Forum TopicsRecently Active Forum Topics
  Help with these stamps from Bolivia!!
  Newfoundland stamp - First stamp ever of Princess Elizabeth
  Upcoming Harmer-Schau auction at APS show
  Big Blue scott intnl album part I on ebay
  Hungary 1959 postal exhibition matchbox labels?
  Simmy's Grading Upcoming Harmers International Auction
  Help with more info!!!
  KGV 1911 card to South Africa
  Can Anyone Identify This Blurry Darling?
  what qualified this One Penny stamp for such a value?
  July 20 QUIZ: How's Your Eye for Detail?
  POW Christmas card to Germany
  Is there any chance this stamp is a Scott #596?
  Interesting postal history - India stamp (tried to be) used in Hong Kong in 1968.
  $2 Columbian Pane of 100 MNH Back on the Block
  Round Corners what size punch
  New ebay handling fee?
  Help needed: USS Maine private print on postal stationery card 1898
  US Scott # 219, 219D, 220, 220a, 220c, 221, 222, 223, 225, 226, 229 + 16 Dupes!
  An example of where part-perf. first issue revenue stamps could come from
  2c Carmine Washington
  $1 Totem Pole single for $65 on Ebay !!!
  Montserrat : On Steiner Pages.
  color on 25 or 26, brown/plum? on cover
  3c pink color challenge

  Help with these stamps from Bolivia!!
  Monaco Stamp Engravers
  KGV 1911 card to South Africa
  $1 Totem Pole single for $65 on Ebay !!!
  Big Blue scott intnl album part I on ebay
  Simmy's Grading Upcoming Harmers International Auction
  Newfoundland stamp - First stamp ever of Princess Elizabeth
  3c pink color challenge
  bullseye and socked on nose cancels
  Stamp Smarter July Contest
  Checks Mix... it's tasty!
  do these worth anything?
  POW Christmas card to Germany
  Catalog numbers for the Los Angeles Liquor License Tax stamps of 1933?
  Has Anyone Used Redpoint Auction Platform?
  color on 25 or 26, brown/plum? on cover
  COMPEX 2018: I came, I saw, I... was sorely disappointed.
  3c 1851 Plating Help (probably plate 6-8), please
  New hazard at PayPal
  My first APS stampshow
  Upcoming Harmer-Schau auction at APS show
  what qualified this One Penny stamp for such a value?
  Interesting postal history - India stamp (tried to be) used in Hong Kong in 1968.
  Round Corners what size punch
  J100 missing 'D' in DOLLAR on lower left in position 90 both plates 34283 and 35282

Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2018 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2005 - 2018 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.8 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05