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Valued Member
Australia
422 Posts
Posted 05/03/2018   06:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jjarmstrong47 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Florian. That all makes sense now. Jindra Schmidt was/is one of my favourite engravers and now you have pointed it out, I'm amazed that I didn't think of him as the only other stamps I have from him that are not Czech are from the 1961 animals set for Ethiopia. I didn't know about the variations in his signature, other than the Jindra S. so all of the information will be helpful in the future.
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Collecting postal history of WW2 in Italy, Chicago precancels and world-wide line engraved. http://www.engravedstamps.net
New Member
3 Posts
Posted 05/16/2018   05:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add HIKER275 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear all, I am new in this forum, and got hooked by the amazing posts and stamps.
I have a small collection of French Colonies stamps and I would like to expand it, and deepen my knowledge on this feild.
I have a question concerning one stemp. On this AOF SENEGAL stamp there is no indication of the specific designer and engraver. Instead, there is the place where it was made: Institut de gravure, Paris. I tried to search for information on the web, but did not succeed. Can anyone direct me to the URL of the institut or the engraver of the stamp.
Thanks in advance.
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Pillar Of The Community
Czech Republic
547 Posts
Posted 05/16/2018   10:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add florian to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
HIKER275 - I am afraid there is no URL of the Institut de Gravure - PARIS, which was a private company according to the following passage in French "... Il (Monsiuer L. Demoulin, directeur de l'Atelier du timbre-poste) avait comme allié (non désintéressé) l'Institut de gravure, imprimerie privée qui éditait elle aussi des vignettes commémoratives mais en taille-douce (10) ..." appearing on http://www.timbresmag.com/2016/01/2...e-cheffer-i/ .

Back in 2016, while looking for information on this printer, I consulted http://www.philateca.com/printer/In...t+de+Gravure , which said: Printer: Institut de Gravure = Institut de Gravure et d'Impression de Papiers-Valeurs, Paris. Alias: H.V. Paris = Inst de Grav = Inst de Grav. = Inst. de Grav. = Inst. de Grav. Paris = Inst. de Gravure = Institut de Gravure - Paris = Institut de Gravure Paris

H.V. Paris (= Hélio-Vaugirard Paris) being an alias of Institut de Gravure was surprising because heliogravure = photogravure or gravure is a photo-mechanical process, different from hand engraving.

A search for Hélio-Vaugirard Paris lead to https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druck...io-Vaugirard where no mention of the Institut de Gravure, Paris was made.

Thinking that no info on the postage stamp printer L'Institut de Gravure, Paris was available on the internet, I searched my earlier w/w collection of used stamps for those carrying its imprint besides identifying such stamps in my Lipsia 1954/55 Europa as well as my 1971 edition of the Stanley Gibbons Stamps of the World catalogues (where the photos of them were so good that I was able to discern the imprints on the stamps in question). In this way, I was able to compile a list of their stamps.

From the list below, you can see that the company started its stamp printing activities in the last third of the 1920s, expanded in the 1930s and 1940s printing stamps for French colonies mainly, and wound up printing stamps for South American countries from 1948 till 1955. Later on, the company apears to have gone out of stamp printing business.

1927 Belgium Sc.#B64-B68, S.G.#C67-C71, Y.&T.#249-283 Caritas - des./engr.: Inst. de Grav. Paris, print.: Atelier du Timbre, Mechelen
1928 Tunisia Sc#B47-B53, S.G.#155-167, Y.&T.#147-153 Child Welfare - imprin.: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1928 France Sc.#B27, S.G.# C463, Y.&T.#252 Caisse d'amortissement - see Maury #252: print.: Inst. de Grav.
1928 Belgium Sc.#B71-B77, S.G.#C74-C80, Y.&T.#260-266 Orval - print.: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1930 Ethiopia Sc.#210-216, S.G.#278-284, Y.&T.#181-187 Coronation - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1931 Tunisia Sc.#122-142, S.G.#172-191, Y.&T.#161-191 Definitives - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1931 Ethiopia Sc.# C11-C17, S.G.#296-302, Y.&T.#P.A.11-17 Air post - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1931 Ethiopia Sc.#232-241, S.G.#303-312, Y.&T.#199-208 Definitives - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1931 Bel. Congo Sc.#139-156, S.G.#180-195, Y.&T.#168-183 Definitives - logo of Inst. de Grav. in vignette
1931 Ruanda-Ur.Sc.#37-54, S.G.#77a-92, Y.&T#92-106, 111-113 Definitives - logo of Inst. de Grav. in vignette
1933 Reunion Sc.#126-166, S.G.#134-174, Y.&T.#125-148, P.A.2-5 Definitives - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1935 Luxemb. Sc.#-199, S.G.#340, Y.&T.#275 Vianden - see LIPSIA Europa 1954/55
1935 Senegal Sc.#142-171, S.G.#145-185, Y.&T.#114-137, P.A.1-11 Definitives - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1937 Monaco Sc.#B19-B23, S.G.#143-147, Y.&T.#135-139 Gardens & - see LIPSIA Europa 1954/55
1938 Senegal Sc.#179-187, S.G.#193-201, Y.&T. #144-148 Definitives - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1938 Somali C. Sc.#146-178, S.G.#114-146, Y.&T. #148-169 Definitives - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1939 Cameroun Sc.#223-224, S.G.#117-118, Y.&T. #160-161 N.Y. World's Fair - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris - Common design
1939 Monaco Sc.#176, 177-181, S.G.#198, 209-213, Y.&T.#135-139 Louis II Stadium - see LIPSIA Europa 1954/55
1939 Senegal Sc.#188-190, S.G.#214-218, Y.&T.#160-164, P.A.13-17 Definitives - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1940 Dahomey Sc.#C1-C5, S.G.#117-121, Y.&T.# P.A.1-5 Plain over coast - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris- Common design
1940 Dahomey Sc.#135-136, S.G.#134e-134f, Y.&T. #149-150 Marshal Petain - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris - Common design
1941 Togo Sc.#270-295, S.G.#125-150, Y.&T. #182-207 Definitives - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1942 Dahomey Sc.#C11-C13, S.G.#143k, Y.&T.# P.A.10-17 Caravan bicolour - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris - Common design
1946 Cameroun Sc.#C8, S.G.#225, Y.&T.#P.A.31 Victory - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris - Common design
1946 Cameroun Sc.#C9-C14, S.G.#226-231, Y.&T.#P.A.32-37 Chad to Rhine - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris - Common design
1946 Senegal Sc.#304-321, S.G.#232-249, Y.&T.#276-294, P.A.38-40 Definitives - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1946 Fr. Equat. Af. Sc.#166-184, C31-C33; S.G.#170-192, Y.&T.#208-226, P.A.50-52 Definitives - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1947 Fr. West Afr. Sc.#36-54, C11-C14; S.G.#34-56, Y.&T.#24-42, P.A.11-14 Definitives - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1947 SP&M Sc.#324-342, C11-C14; S.G.#34-56, Y.&T.#24-42, P.A.18-20 Definitives - air: bicolour -imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1947 Togo Sc.#309-326, C11-C14; S.G.#14-17, Y.&T.#236-253, P.A.17-20 Definitives - air: bicolour - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1947 Bel. Congo Sc.#231-256, S.G.#273-291, Y.&T.#277-295 Definitives - part: bicolour - monogram of Inst. de Grav. on salvage
1948 Ruanda-Ur. Sc.#90-109, S.G.#141-159, Y.&T.#154-172 Definitives - part: bicolour - monogram of Inst. de Grav. on salvage
1948 Ecuador Sc.#514-519, C109-C201; S.G.#875-884; Y.&T.#503-508, P.A.204-208 Geographer Maldorado - bicolour
1949 Ecuador Sc.#520-524, C202-C206; S.G.#885-894; Y.&T.#509-513, P.A.209-210 Miguel de Cervantes - bicolour
1949 Ecuador Sc.#528, S.G.#901, Y.&T.#514 Equator
1950 Ecuador Sc.#542, S.G.#926, Y.&T.#531 San Pablo Lake
1951 Peru Sc.#C94-C102, S.G.#746-754, Y.&T.#P.A. 87-95 Unissued stamps overprinted UPU - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1951 Ecuador Sc.#555-557, C227-C230; S.G.#941-947; Y.&T.#543-545, P.A.228-231 St. Mariana - bicolour - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1952 Ecuador Sc.#RA63, S.G.#966, Y.&T.#554 Schoolyard - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1953 Ecuador Sc.#571-574, C240-C241; S.G.#973-978; Y.&T.#558-561, P.A.241-242 Education - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1954 Ecuador Sc.# C261-C262, S.G.#1002-1003, Y.&T.#P.A.226A-B Unissued stamps overprinted Panagra - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris
1955 Paraguay Sc.#491-497, C225-C232; S.G.#770-784; Y.&T.#511-517, P.A. 217-224 Mgr. Rodriguez - imprint: Inst. de Grav. Paris

Designers / engravers, unless indicated on their stamps, remain anonymous.

Happy stamping,

Florián
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Edited by florian - 05/16/2018 10:21 am
New Member
3 Posts
Posted 05/17/2018   12:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add HIKER275 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear FLORIAN, thank you so much for elaborating on the topic. Indeed, it was a great journey through the links you provided. Also, the list you managed to compile is very valuable.
Does anyone know to which tribe does the Senegalese women belong?
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Pillar Of The Community
Czech Republic
547 Posts
Posted 05/18/2018   06:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add florian to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
HIKER275 - Detailed information on designs is not always available. If you consult L'image ethnographique: le timbre-poste colonial français africain de 1920 a 1950, Illustration 12 on https://www.erudit.org/fr/revues/pr...35/006730ar/ , what you learn is:
Sénégal 1938 ; Fille sénégalaise ; design/gravure : Institut de gravure.

On http://www.timbres-de-france.com/co...php#sene-165
the design is called Sénégalaise.

Sometimes, an anectote is offered as for Pierre Gandon's very first stamp design (for Dahomey) variously described as "Indigenous Woman of Dahomey" or "Dahomey's Woman Warrior". Describing the way he created it, Pierre Gandon said: "Mon modele, la bonne Sénégalaise d'un de mes amis qui, pour l'occasion, avait mis son couvre-chef exotique". See: http://gandon.e-monsite.com/pages/t...le-mele.html .

So the "indigenous woman of Dahomey" on the stamp was in fact a Senegalese, not one of Dahomey. Still, it is a great design and great engraving.

Happy stamping,

Florián
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Edited by florian - 05/18/2018 07:02 am
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
648 Posts
Posted 05/18/2018   07:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Florian,


be careful with these French articles!

It claims that certain Moaco stamps were printed by Joh. Enschede in Haarlem, but rthere is NO proof for that. Research was done in the 1960-ies by Jan Dekker and he found NOTHING of that kind!

"En 1922, Albert 1er, prince de Monaco (5), fit graver une série par Cheffer avec en particulier son portrait, de profil avec une casquette d'officier de marine. Son fils, Louis II, fit graver deux portraits en uniforme de général de l'armée française (6 et 7). Cheffer dessina et grava encore plusieurs vues de sites célèbres de la principauté que nous verrons plus en détail lorsque nous étudierons la partie Monaco.

Tous ces timbres furent imprimés chez Enschedé, Braun, Boher et Dubois. C'était la première fois que les timbres de Monaco n'étaient pas imprimés en typographie à l'Atelier du timbre, à Paris."

groetjes, Rein
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Pillar Of The Community
Czech Republic
547 Posts
Posted 05/21/2018   06:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add florian to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Galeoptyx - Rein,

The issue under discussion in this thread is Institut de gravure, Paris and the French article was referred to because it explained how the firm had operated.

Your finger-wagging and your unfair, discreditable remark about "those French articles" was not only unfortunate but also totally uncalled-for, I'm afraid.

There are a number of arguable opinions published in catalogues and philatelic literature and the facts may never come to light and those about stamp designers / engravers / printers are some of them. So let's just take it easy and don't let's make a fuss about them.

Greetings,

Florián
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Edited by florian - 05/21/2018 07:13 am
Valued Member
United States
16 Posts
Posted 06/02/2018   12:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
AKPhilately

I have been following your series Guillaume Broux - Belgium's Torchbearer on your blog. I agree Mr. Broux has done beautiful work.
I went to bpost to purchase Mr. Broux's work and their eshop only delivers in Belgium. I am just a collector of engraved stamps I find artistic and not as knowledgeable as those I see posting in this forum. I wrote to bpost the following letter hoping to jar them into opening their shop to the world. I am hoping you can direct me to where I may purchase Mr Broux's work in the mean time?

My Letter to BPOST:
Je souhaite acheter des timbres Belges gravés par Guillaume Broux. Votre eshop n'autorise pas les ventes en dehors de la Belgique.

Est-il possible d'acheter ces timbres gravés de bpost sans aggravation massive?
S'il vous plaît voir comment http://www.laposte.fr/ http://www.posten.se/ https://www.postnord.dk/
http://www.posten.ax/ rend cet achat facile pour les collectionneurs.


Merci


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Valued Member
United Kingdom
219 Posts
Posted 06/02/2018   5:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add AKPhilately to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Bacchus: I know, bpost is a bit of a pain when it comes to foreign orders, but you will find most of Broux' stamps either on the wopa website (www.wopa-stamps.com) or on eBay (seller: wopaplus in Gibraltar), both for or roughly at face value. Good luck, and glad you like my broux blog entries!
:-)
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My stamp engravers website:
http://stampengravers.blogspot.co.uk/
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
648 Posts
Posted 06/03/2018   02:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Florian,


Quote:

Your finger-wagging and your unfair, discreditable remark about "those French articles" was not only unfortunate but also totally uncalled-for, I'm afraid.

There are a number of arguable opinions published in catalogues and philatelic literature and the facts may never come to light and those about stamp designers / engravers / printers are some of them. So let's just take it easy and don't let's make a fuss about them.


Ypu took my "these" as pejorative. It wasn't meant like that, but it is true that I strongly prefer to come up with arguments against certain "misunderstandings" in philatelic literature than stay silent. Some people do no like the "tone" in my music... So be it.

I will return to the Monaco - Johez matter soon! Where does it come from??? It was there in Michel in 1966 already ;)

pozdrawiam, Rein
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
219 Posts
Posted 07/09/2018   07:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add AKPhilately to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
jorgesurcl: on page 233 of this thread you mention Alfred Cossmann as the designer-engraver of the 1916/18 Bosnia and Herzegovina sets for the War Invalids Fund. The rather authoritative Keil (well, I thought so, anyway) wrote in his book 'Der österreichische Briefmarkenstich' that Cossmann may have taught all these wonderful postwar engravers the art of steel engraving, but that he never ever engraved a single stamp himself. Do you have any information explicitly stating that Cossmann not only designed those stamps, but that he actually engraved them himself as well?
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My stamp engravers website:
http://stampengravers.blogspot.co.uk/
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