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Identify Bluish Paper "On The Fly"

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Pillar Of The Community

1375 Posts
Posted 03/21/2017   10:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add stamperix to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello,

I know this is one of the most discussed topic, and I really read a lot about it, also here in the forum. Still, I do not know much about it. I have hundreds of perf 12 stamps which could be bluish paper.

What I know:
- perf 12
- bluish paper is grey
- you can see (sometimes) the 191 watermark also without fluid
- there are (sometimes) little black dots visible in the paper

What my problem is:
- all my stamps are grey, as they are used and old, I don't have any perf 12 stamps from that time which are actually white
- many stamps have a watermark that I can see without fluid

Well, I don't want to know anything chemically about bluish paper or its history, I just want to know:
- how do you go through piles of those stamps to decide which stamp could be object of further imvestigation? All the above mentioned hints don't help me at all.
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Edited by stamperix - 03/21/2017 10:59 am

Pillar Of The Community
United States
1754 Posts
Posted 03/21/2017   11:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I don't want to know anything chemically about bluish paper



As long as you hold onto that baggage, you will not be able to develop the kind of vision that recognizes these stamps at sight. It is not merely a matter of rote memorization, but a much deeper kind of understanding. The chemistry is causative for the appearance. If you get, you've got it.
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 03/21/2017   11:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
hello essayk,

this shouldn't be a misunderstanding, but I really read a lot about this topic, even in long texts, the latest in the United States Specialist about it. I understood all the chemistry and descriptions, that's why I mentioned the criteria which COULD help me to identify those stamps. This sounds all great in theory, but when I am here with all these old grey stamps before my eyes, I just can't figure it out. So answers to my questions could also be "I gave up this for years, forget about it without a digital x-ray..." or "this is a grey that just really pops out, it's more a dark grey". I really just want to know how YOU all do this (do experts like you see it like that without loupe, or do you need a microscope, or do you look at the watermark thing?).
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Edited by stamperix - 03/21/2017 11:35 am
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Posted 03/21/2017   11:49 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You can buy a certified blue paper and then use it as reference. But trying to eye ball computer images on various monitors results in a merger kind of knowledge.
Don

Below are two stamps' one of left is blue paper. Viewing against an orange background can make the grey 'pop' a bit more but once you have one in hand you will not forget what it looks like. (I used the right stamp since it is a typical somewhat toned stamp of the period.)

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Posted 03/21/2017   11:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Stamperix, I collect a certain range of US stamps that were printed on several different papers. Several years ago I was pulling my hair out ( sometimes still am! ) but the longer I work on it the deeper my understanding of some of the differences are. It does not come easy, but it slowly does. One of the best ways to recognize bluish paper is to actually buy one. There are some that do not require a second, third or fourth mortgage, and seeing the real thing will help a lot. But make sure when you buy one it is the real thing, like certified!
Well, Don and I crossed answers, but basically he is saying the same thing!


Peter
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Edited by Petert4522 - 03/21/2017 11:55 am
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Posted 03/21/2017   11:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Richard Frajola to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Or, you just hold up a stamp to a strong light. The watermark "pops" out and is fully visible on all blue papers.
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 03/21/2017   12:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello all,

thank you very much. You helped me so well, as now I can better evaluate where I still miss knowledge and where I just need experience in "looking". The suggestion with buying a cheap one is fine. So the best choice would be 357 1 Cent, I guess?

thanks for the picture, Don, but it would have been nice to see an old damaged used stamp compared to the bluish :).
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Edited by stamperix - 03/21/2017 12:09 pm
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Posted 03/23/2017   6:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lukusw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I personally think getting a certified #357 AND #358 is worth it. The visual effect of the blue paper to my eye is different with a green versus red inked stamp.
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Australia
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Posted 03/23/2017   9:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add YeaPolska to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You could always go over to Siegels & drool over the bluish paper collection they've just sold

https://siegelauctions.com/sales.php?sale_no=1148
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Slovakia (Slovak Republic)
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Posted 06/21/2017   07:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add iStamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
any opinion regarding the paper used on the scanned stamps is very welcome thanks

i cant compare cause I have only one from each



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United States
82 Posts
Posted 06/21/2017   11:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wbrob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yesterday I went through some used stamps with a friend; several used Lincolns were part of the group. All cancelled, most sort of grubby or somewhat 'soiled' looking. We discussed blue paper as I pulled one out.
He was skeptical.
The key was putting several FACE DOWN on yellow (or you can use yellow-ish or orange-ish paper) and there was no question that it was the blue paper.
I have used 'face down' for a long time and it seems to have always been the deciding procedure.
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Slovakia (Slovak Republic)
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Posted 06/21/2017   3:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add iStamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thanks a lot I will try it but I'm not sure that it will show up if I don't have the same two stamps to compare
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Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 06/21/2017   4:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Per YeaPolska, it would do you well to run through the photos in that catalog to learn the look/color of WF bluish paper. Older stamps have often gone yellowish/brownish, but rarely grayish and even less often that particular gray shade. It would probably be more common to find one where some joker tried to fake one with blue ink.

wbrob's face down method is key; looking at each the first 4 stamps on the red card, you can see the wash of printing ink color on the front of each. That typical element can throw your eye off.
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Slovakia (Slovak Republic)
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Posted 06/22/2017   01:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add iStamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
great help from all of you thanks a lot and here is nearly all of my usp stamps face down on yellow and pink caus couldnt find orange :) but I see nothing and everything in the same time






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Posted 06/22/2017   05:02 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...but I see nothing...


This is correct, none are blue paper.
Don
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Slovakia (Slovak Republic)
218 Posts
Posted 06/22/2017   10:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add iStamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you Don

another topic now is confusing me (sorry in advance in case I am wrong) and its ONE CENT 1908-1922 Franklin which according to my info exists only with perf 12 but this one looks a bit different as well as the image width please have a look yourself thanks








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