Help Needed On Used 606A Line Pair

Hello, I am having a real hard time finding a value for a U.S. 606a joint line pair (1923 Carmine Lake), used, sound with a PSE cert. I have found a few (and only a few) examples of the 599b, which I believe is its vertical coil equivalent and I am not so sure those were line pairs either or even used and they went for good money at one of the high end auction houses (sorry about iffy info, I was focusing on 606a's). I have done a fair amount of research (without having any specific philatelic resources) and this is what I have so far...
Scotts has no price listed for any 606a's but the NH price for this is $1,750 (in 2009).
PSE has graded one JLP and that was a grade 20, they also graded 3 other pairs.
PSE also has no listing for any used 606a's in its SMQ and they have listings for hundreds of thousand dollar stamps...? Likely because they have a "known" sale!? right?
I know how to cover ground on the internet and couldn't dig up a single copy, not even a single stamp (certified of course).
I want to sell the pair but if I cant find any more evidence than, 'there is one other crappy pair known', it seems to me that this is an extremely rare piece and I dont want to be hasty and lose out. I was just talking to someone and I said "I can find more about past inverted jenny sales than 606a's".
Just because PSE only graded one doesnt mean they didnt give certs for others because I didnt have mine graded either but still...
I didnt make this listing to sell this or look for a buyer here (though I have obviously made my intentions clear in my explanation), what I am starving for is info on past sales or known copies etc. so that I can form a price or justify an asking price. Then I can start the arduous task of finding a buyer...haha
I really appreciate any help you may have to offer...Dave

Go to www.siegelauctions.com and do a power search and you'll see where some multiples of 606a sold at auction #976 on 9/29/09.

In addition to a more recent catalog, I have an old 2002 Scott Specialized Catalog of US Stamps and a 606a carmine lake variety isn't even listed, suggesting that it was only accepted as a variety within the last ten (10) years, which may be exactly why there are so few listed sales for them to document an accurate used price for a line pair.

Does anyone know when Scott first accepted the 606a into their catalog and the reason for it?

NOTE: You may want to read the comments on this previous thread about the carmine lake variety of several US stamps that were initially noted as color varieties but only in recent years were given a minor number in the Scott catalog:

https://goscf.com/t/27560

Thank you guys very much, you have no idea how helpful this is...Dave

There are a couple differences in those auctions though Gator... the 606a LP I have is used and of the 24 joints in all of these stamps, none have a line, which is obviously a big difference...hmmm

I just edited my first message so that 'used' is bold as it is key for this issue, I probably should have done that initially.

I knew that the auction sales info. wasn't comparing apples to apples but I thought it may still give you some point of reference for coming up with an approx. value. If I can find any other info. on sales or value for 606a I'll post it for you.

Thanks Gator, its just that...I am not counting my chickens but with everyone I have contacted (some big people) and the amount of help I have received, which is none, as far as showing me proof of any other examples, I am really starting to worry, especially when no one seems to care...!? How can there be no interest in such a piece as this? I dont know...I will give it some more time and again, I do appreciate your time and efforts, Dave

haha, exceedingly rare worthless stamp...!! What section do I list this in on ebay? I would have expected lots of people trying to buy it, mostly low-balling but lots of interest. I had this listed on ebay with no offers, of course I think only about 20 people looked at it...the whole thing is somewhat disappointing at this point. Of course if I wasnt selling it the piece would be the best thing ever in my collection...

I'm really hoping you find some valuable info on this. Been in same position where no matter who you contact they really don't care and realistically you have to think why would they unless it was theres. By no means do I have any pertinent info but in this case a line pair is probably not really helping . I see many that collect them but its really a personal preference. At auction you will likely find several that want the pair but maybe only 1-2 that really care if its a line pair. The hopes would be a bidding war. If on your own you figure you won't get its worth it maybe time to consider an auction house and roll the dice.

That is really a real good thing to consider...I just talked to an stamp auction house owner and he said... well he said exactly this...

"We haven't seen any because very few used examples survived, but there are plenty of mint singles and pairs so it is unlikely a used one would sell for an extraordinary price."

and I replied with WHAT?! No, but I did ask him if he said what I think he said. Are you kidding me, I have a joint line pair of a coil stamp of which there are very few examples and that may be of singles and pairs included which likely means that this may literally be, one of a kind, and it isnt worth much? I cant even finish this... I finally hit one and I did too good of a job? hahaha well aint that special...

But back to what nitrolures said that made me think that I should make 2 singles out of it...what?! dont hit me...I am sorry! haha I was just reading that other recent discussion here about whether or not to remove selvage and I know all about this type of stuff... I also deal pocket watches etc and one time I found a big forum discussion, by accident, talking about me and my ebay auctions and if I was taking pocket watches apart and selling them as parts. (BTW, another bad thing is all of the watches that are being destroyed due to the price of gold.) Unfortunately what they were saying about me was true and I chimed in, as an unknown at first in my defense and then I let them know it was me but some people needed parts for their watches but of course the majority, as I am sure will be the same here, were and will be appalled at the thought of breaking up a potential one of a kind (of decent quality) joint line pair.
But, there would be much more desire for a single and I would then have 2 which is quite obvious what affect that would have...so blame nitro, it is not my fault...hahahaha

The reality of this situation for me is this...I am a carpenter by trade, I am 46, I had my knees replaced at 40 (and was just informed that they both need to be done again!), my shoulder has had 2 major surgeries done and needs a replacement (I could go on but I wont), so I went looking for other ways to make money at home about 10 years ago because I knew this was coming, I started with scrap gold, became a 'good' watchmaker in fairly short time, have sold hundred/thousands of watches, just as many diamonds and I am doing the stamp thing now. And while I do have respect for the collector, historical and other aspects of these antique items (of which someone in the selvage forum pointed out that we are just in temporary possession of these great treasures and dont have the right to alter them), I am doing this to stay afloat 'mainly' and unfortunately that is the way life is in the US anyway, so in my case, even though I am somewhat intelligent, money largely dictates my decisions like this. I do have to say to those people who have never had to worry about money yet speak out the loudest against "such atrocities"...back off...Oh, and buy it from me and save it! haha
In many auctions I come right out and say...Please save this from the scrapper etc...but no one ever does??? so why am I the bad guy? Oh, yeah, you are right...because I benefit from destroying pieces of history...good point...no, I am far from malicious, as far as possible.

I fully understand your reasons but don't seperate them. If anything put them aside and get back to them after. You could calculate what 2 singles are going for on average and put the pair up for bidding at 2x single price. That should bring the pair/line pair into better light. Do a 10 day ebay listing and cross your fingers but start it at your worse case and hope like hell it ends up being best case.

Personally I would never split up a line pair. Doing so would absolutely cut the value in half. A used single can be had for around $15.00 and if you check ebay's completed listings for used 606A singles, you will see that they aren't selling for $20.00. So I think your asking price of $25,000 might be a tad high. Another example of how rare and valuable are not always synonymous. Still, I would think a used coil line pair would still fetch $50 ?

Here is how you determine fair value.... put it on ebay with a 10 day auction run [to maximize exposure] START the bids at 1$ - BUT - put on a HIDDEN RESERVE of 25,000$. If it sells, I hope you will be happy. If it doesn't, you will know what the real-world marketplace is willing to pay.

Otherwise known as the ebay free appraisal system :)

What ever you do, DON'T separate the pair. You will pay a heavy penalty in total value reduction (~75%-90% hit). It's the intact joint line that accounts for the bulk of the premium.



The 2010 catalog has it at $1000 for MNH line pair.




That was also my initial reaction. It is demand that determines the value, not quantities in existence. When demand exceeds supply by a large amount, then the retail price will be high. There's simply not a lot of demand specifically for USED line pairs. However, you can do certain things to create demand -- specifically, exposure. One thing you can do is contact the Scott editors and email the certificate to them. If they can at least acknowledge the used copy with a "-" for the price in the used price column, that will give both exposure and additional acceptance.

I like Chasa's idea, but I have no idea the ebay fees involved. But I would think the selling price might roughly be the same order of magnitude as for a well-centered sound mint never hinged example with certificate. Maybe higher, maybe lower, but as the auction house suggested, I would also be surprised if it sold for an additional two 0's in the price. Had it still been on cover, that would definitely generate more interest as the pool of interested big-spending collectors would be much larger.

Either way, you should still be very happy with your find. Don't let the "profit" issue create undue stress or frustration for you. You have a very nice example of a line pair that is not often found.

Best wishes!

I`m a bit surprised to hear the answer given by this auction house owner.... I took some years ago a couple of stamps to a SMALL specialized auction house in Budapest- Hungary (nothing special, as I can remember highest CV of a stamp was about 150-200 dollars, maybe a bit more- anyway, nice cancellations, perfins, covers, history etc. that would make them still desirable). And it was all right. The owner sat down, slowly&carefully examined every item, we spoke, we agreed on starting price, he also offered he will re-list items. He phone-called another auction house (they seemed rather helping each other, then compete), a lot of people were coming to the office for brochures, asking about the auctions, even from Germany, Austria.
Well, the impression I was left with is that if I would have plenty of money to build up a collection, I would forget ebay and I`d only purchase from auction houses. I`m fairly convinced, that even if you have to wait, even if the fees are higher, rare stamps should be taken to auction houses. Try another one...
In Europe some major (especially Swiss and German) auction houses are coming home to you, examining estates for free...they have a schedule for different countries.
A good auctioner should know a lot of serious big-pocketed collectioner, or if he don`t he should urgently find them... what`s happening with the world... who else should find a buyer for a rare item, if not a specialized auctioneer???!! ebay is okay, but I`m convinced that BIG collectors who afford to by rarities are not sniping for bargains there...