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Valued Member
72 Posts
Posted 12/20/2014   10:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Moon to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
why would one fake a grill on this design? The special printing without grill has a much higher catalog value in used condition than a used regular printing #116. The difference is nearly 1/20th the CV of a mint #116 or a used #127 special printing that has no grill.


One thing that comes to mind is that a special printing or an unused 116 would likely draw scrutiny from experts in the issue, whereas as a run-of-the-mill used 116 would probably go largely unnoticed. Any counterfeiter who wants to stay around for long is going to weigh risk against reward, and it's a lot easier to pass 10 or 20 used 116s than a single 127
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
937 Posts
Posted 12/20/2014   10:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Historical DNA Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Moon, what you replied makes great sense assuming that they started with fake material to begin with. I meant to ask some questions in my last post but forgot:

Has there ever been a reproduction of this stamp other than the special printing #127? Is this issue known to have fakes?
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Ryan = HDNAC = DNA = HDC = Hysterical DNA Collector = Historical DNA Collector = me who just loves stamps :)
Pillar Of The Community
United States
937 Posts
Posted 12/21/2014   8:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Historical DNA Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Some straight edges exist on the left or right side of 1¢ through 12¢ 1869 Pictorial issue stamps.


Clark, good point that adds to the fact that they don't have natural straight edges on the top nor the bottom. I did not know that until your reply.


Quote:
The stamp appears to be genuine,...


Clark and/or anyone, what makes this definitively a genuine #116? I've exhausted my relevant analytical abilities.

For my adjusted image of the back, two questions.

1. Is what I observe as a possible thin actually a thin? I would expect it to be lighter instead of what seems to be more reflective. It could be explained by hinge residue, but isn't rectangular.

2. The lines of most of the grill's horizontal rows don't appear straight. Is this not normal or maybe I'm seeing things?

Moon did answer my question concerning other issues of this design, but appears to have deleted his post. He made a great point that proofs were made of this design, which I had not considered and which probably exist for every design that is issued.
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Ryan = HDNAC = DNA = HDC = Hysterical DNA Collector = Historical DNA Collector = me who just loves stamps :)
Valued Member
72 Posts
Posted 12/21/2014   9:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Moon to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, I deleted my last post, sorry. Looking at it again this morning, I felt that it was mostly late night ramblings that didn't really add much to the discussion.

My first thought about this stamp was that it might be an altered proof, due to the reperforation of all three perforated sides, and the bright white appearance of the paper. The grill made me wonder, though, as if it is fake it appears to be reasonably well done, which is the opposite of what I'd expect from someone who did such a poor job on the perfs. Not that I know much about identifying fake grills, but at least it's not an obvious hack job like the perfs.

At this point, I'm inclined to agree that it's probably a reperforated jumbo. As far as the apparent curvature of the grill lines is concerned, I think the stamp is actually curled a little.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
937 Posts
Posted 12/21/2014   10:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Historical DNA Collector to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Moon, I understand your concern that the stamp is curled. The image of the backside is pretty flat from what I can see in the shadows of the perforations, but I could be wrong.

No worries about late night ramblings. I'm guilty of it and trying to do it less often. As long as it tries to contribute, who cares if it doesn't actually contribute. The tone of many of the discussions here is very formal and intimidating by the fear of not being 100% correct in content or grammar. Perhaps more members would join discussions if the atmosphere was more relaxed.

-edited for clarity
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Ryan = HDNAC = DNA = HDC = Hysterical DNA Collector = Historical DNA Collector = me who just loves stamps :)
Edited by Historical DNA Collector - 12/22/2014 12:07 pm
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