Loyd's Penny Post Genuine Or Forgery

Hello all; Specialist opinion needed.
From a Golden Oak on line sale..
This stamp looks like a forgery?
PFcert. as Genuine..

Not expert, but I do own volume 2 of Larry Lyons's Bible on this issue

This looks like a type A forgery based on the book page 472

But Larry Lyons signed the certificate?

rgstamp;Thanks for your reply. That's what I thought. It is definetly not a Hussey reprint.

You could just tear up the certificate and then mark the back as "forgery" to correct Larry's perceived error.

That reminds me of a 1c 1851 stamp that I have which is incorrectly plated and ID'd wrong, but the PFC is signed by Mort Neinken, who wrote the book. It happens.

Everyone can make a mistake. That includes the men who wrote the books. A stamp with a cert is still worth having even if a mistake is made every once in a while. The stamps in question are you sure they are what the cert calls for. The stamps could have been replaced with forgeries that match the photo on the certs. This giving them the genuine stamps and passing the fakes on to someone. If the stamps are closely matched to the photo it could be passed off as the one in the certs. I would look very carefully to make sure first. You could always resubmit the stamps for a second look. I think I would trust the two you named to make the correction if needed or confirm their first opinion.

I have three PSE certs for plate blocks of the over run country stamps. All three are obviously the over print veritys but the certs do not recognize then as such and they graded then to be 95s. I bought them to be regular issues but after receiving them I confirmed they are the over prints. So yes the very best can have an off day and fail to recognize or mistakenly authenticate a stamp that is a fake. I still buy PSE certs. It is better to have one than to not as so few mistakes are made it makes so little difference in the reliability of their valuable service.

And you know this for a fact how?

A search of the PF website would show that a high percentage of the items actually have little chance of a mistake; there are is no other stamp possible. Then there are the issues where the varieties are clearly denoted in the design, and can be seen by simply enlarging the image. For the rest, there would have been far more complaints about mistakes over the years than there have been if a serious number of mistakes were being made.

Full Disclosure: Bart (Revcollector) has a relationship with the Philatelic Foundation.

Which does not change what I wrote. Most stamps on the site are all but impossible to mistake for another.

Is it common practice to have someone sign a cert for a stamp they submitted?

Some of the most egregious mistakes have been made on local posts and carrier stamps and covers since Larry has been in charge. Off the top of my had, for starters, many Adams Express stamps and covers as well as a famous Langton's Express cover, ex Grumbacher. This is my opinion at least.

No. The common practice is that if someone who examines items submits something they recuse themselves.

Since Lewis Kaufmann retired from the PF, they do not have anyone that has a strong postal history background looking a covers. Larrys was a stamp collector prior to starting with the PF - his great US stamp collection was sold by Shreve at some point I think. I sold Larry the ex Sloane reference collection of articles and fakes and forgeries circa 2006 I suppose. It included most of the material in my mock local post exhibit collection here:
https://www.rfrajola.com/Mocks/mocks.htm

Larry then wrote his 3 volume series.

On this item - Larry may never have examined the stamp as he was signing the certificate as a representing the opinion of the examiners (whoever they are these days).

FYI- Larry Lyons has a huge postal history collection, with particular interest in forwarded and missent mail, and Valentine's Day covers. He exhibits regularly. He also has a vast forgeries collection as well.