Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

Centennial Coil Precancel

Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 22 / Views: 4,962Next Topic
Page: of 2
Valued Member

Canada
106 Posts
Posted 12/14/2012   11:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Stray Feathers to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have a 6 cent black centennial precancel that appears to be a coil stamp. I'm working with a 2012 Unitrade catalogue and it lists 3 cent and 5 cent precancel coils but not 6 cent. Paper fluorescence is right for precancel but wrong for coil. Does anyone know if such a thing exists? I'll send scans if helpful.
Send note to Staff

Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1339 Posts
Posted 12/14/2012   11:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BlackJag to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Always attach a scan if possible. Makes it so much easier.
corrected spelling.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by BlackJag - 12/14/2012 2:32 pm
Valued Member
392 Posts
Posted 12/14/2012   1:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lorddenning to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This article may answer your question:

http://postalhistorycorner.blogspot...coils-1.html
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Canada
106 Posts
Posted 12/14/2012   2:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stray Feathers to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is the scan. Left edge is ragged, but the stamp looks big enough not to have been clipped. Precancel bars run horizontally, not vertically as in 3 cent and 5 cent coil precancels.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Canada
411 Posts
Posted 12/14/2012   2:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add studystamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not a coil. Appears to be Unitrade # 460cxx.

The perfs at left have been removed. The stamp is severely damaged as a result (should be discarded, unless it is your only 6c precancel of this design, and is then a 'space-filler').
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
392 Posts
Posted 12/14/2012   3:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lorddenning to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The tamp is a precancelled sheet stamp. This article will explain why one side has a straight edge:

http://postalhistorycorner.blogspot...ication.html
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1339 Posts
Posted 12/14/2012   4:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BlackJag to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with studystamps and lorddenning.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
5156 Posts
Posted 12/14/2012   4:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
lorddenning, I have visited your Postal History Corner now
for a few years and I'm always amazed at the wealth of information
you have come up with.

Concerning the 6c black die II, what do you mean by
whether more pressure was applied in the cylinder's production
Just curious what is the source of such information.

So the fact that cylinders were used means that it was printed
on a rotary press.
Do you have any info as to the make of the press?

I contacted Canada Post Philatelic about engraved presses but
they have nothing apparently.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Canada
106 Posts
Posted 12/14/2012   5:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stray Feathers to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree this must be what it is. But I'd like to know how the cut on the left side was made - it almost looks rouletted. It may have been manually scored in a line that almost eliminated the perfs, but not cleanly through the paper, and a subsequent tear to finish the job might have left the protruding tufts. And I do have lots of other copies, so this goes into the curiosity file.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
392 Posts
Posted 12/14/2012   9:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lorddenning to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Lithographing

Thanks for your message. I made a mistake regarding the 6 cent die and have made the correction. I had misunderstood what I had read in an article by Leopold Beaudet in the Robin Harris book "Centennial Definitive Series 1967 -1973". Mr. Beaudet's article is a must if you want to know how the Centennial issue was printed. Mr. Beaudet provides a detailed account of how the Canadian Bank Note Company and the British American Bank Note Co. printed the Centennial stamps. Here is the index:




While on the subject, I thought this might be an appropriate opportunity to discuss the different printings of the 6 cent Centennial sheet stamp and coils, probably the most confusing of Centennial stamps.

Please understand that I am a cover enthusiast; stamps and their production are not my specialty. However I have been collecting and studying the Centennial stamps since 1967 and I think I've got the 6 cent sheet stamp and coils figured out (at a basic level).

So let's start the 6 cent Centennial stamp adventure. It's a long one.

On November 1, 1968, the domestic letter rate was increased from 5 cents to 6 cents. The British American Bank No. Co. (BABN) was given the contract to print the letter rate denomination sheet stamps. The Canadian Bank Note Co. (CBNC) had previously printed all denominations. Coil stamps continued to be printed by CBNC.

BABN and CBNC used different methods to print their stamps

1) 6 cent orange sheet stamp BABN

According to Mr. Beaudet, the die for this stamp was engraved by BABN. The stamps were printed on a Goebel rotary press.

Three cylinders were produced (Plates 1 -3).




2) 6 cent orange coil stamp CBNC

Mr. Beaudet writes that CBNC borrowed the BABN die to produce the 6 cent coil which was issued in January, 1969:



3) Comparing the BABN and CBNC 6 cent stamps

When the orange stamps are viewed side-by-side (BABN sheet stamp,left,and CBNC coil stamp, right, there isn't much difference in detail.




4) Colour Change from Orange to Black, January 7, 1970

The six cent stamp colour was changed from orange to black in 1970 because the orange colour did not provide sufficient contrast for optical cancelling machines to locate the stamp on the envelope.

The first BABN 6 cent black sheet stamp was issued on January 7, 1970. The stamp was produced from the same cylinders (1-3) used to print the 6 cent orange stamps, and therefore the same die.



Unfortunately, the printing process resulted in a stamp with weak lines and pale colour. Detail was lost in the Queen's face when compared with the orange stamp.

5) 6 cent black CBNC coil stamp July 1970

The weakness of the BABN 6c black stamp is even more pronounced when we see the CBNC coil black stamp issued in July 1970, produced from same die that the BABN had used for its sheet stamps:



6)Comparing the BABN and CBNC 6 cent black stamps

When the black stamps are viewed side-by-side (BABN sheet stamp,left,and CBNC coil stamp, right) we see just how unsatisfactory the BABN effort was.



7) BABN issues an improved 6 cent black stamp : April, 1970

A stamp with deeper lines, showing more detail was issued in April, 1970 (Cylinder/plate No. 4)



8) Comparing Jan 1970 and April 1970 BABN stamps

Looking at the right sides of the stamps, Jan 1970 (l) and April 1970 (r), we see the extent to which the lines have been strengthened strengthening in the April 1970 (Cylinder 4) issue.



Stamp catalogues identify the Jan 1970 stamp as Die I and the April 1970 stamp as Die II. The experts in the field believe that Die I was "reworked". (This was the mistake in the Postal History Corner article lithographing had asked about)

Since I don't know much about printing, the best I can do is tell you what the experts have concluded.

9) CBN 6 cent black sheet stamp : January 1972

On July 1, 1971, the domestic letter rate increased to 7 cents. The printed matter rate increased from 5 cents to 6 cents. This meant that CBN could print 6 cent sheet stamps for printed matter use. On January 1, 1972, the CBN 6 cent sheet stamp was issued.




Catalogues call this the black CBN die.


10) Comparing BABN Jan. 70, BABN April 70, and CBN

Here are the three 6 cent black sheet stamps:




The story isn't over. This is just the basics. I haven't discussed perforations, paper types, precancels, and tagging.

I hope I haven't confused you too much. I find it difficult to keep it straight in my mind.




Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
5156 Posts
Posted 12/14/2012   10:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Thank you lorddenning, you have posted a load of information there and quite a bit of I wasn't aware of,
it's going to take me awhile to digest it all.

There is another member here Florian by name who is also
very interested in printing methods, he will really enjoy this.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
5156 Posts
Posted 12/14/2012   10:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
@ lorddenning, is there anything in Mr. Beaudet's article about what kind of press was used by CBNC ?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
392 Posts
Posted 12/14/2012   11:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lorddenning to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Lithographing`:

Page 46 of the Beaudet article:

"CBN used a rotary, sheet-fed press to print all the Centennial stamps except the coils. This means that CBN bent flat plates into a semi-circular shape, affixed them to a printing cylinder, and printed the stamps on individual sheets of pre-gummed paper fed into the printing press."
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
544 Posts
Posted 02/03/2013   11:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add alanl to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Lorddenning posted:




A few decades ago I read someplace(Canadian Stamp News?)that the die
was made by CBN and a weak copy was provided to BABN.

Just look at the stamps. The CBN coil is very well printed with solid
lines and the BABN sheet stamp is weak with broken lines.

If CBN got a copy from BABN they sure did a better job with it!

The die was engraved by Yves Baril and he worked for CBN.

This graphic comes from the Adminware site. Notice what it says
under the CBN die...(original).




Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
392 Posts
Posted 02/04/2013   01:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lorddenning to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Alani

Have you read Mr. Beaudet's article? Your interest in the Centennial varieties suggest that you own the Harris book and therefore disagree with Mr. Beaudet, or my summary of Mr. Beaudet's analysis.

My area of specialty lies in the postal history of the Centennial issue. I can tell the printings apart. How they came to be so different is a matter I have left to others to explain. It's something which doesn't excite me much. Now if I can get just get my hands on a 7 cent UPU surface rate post card mailed between from November 1, 1968 to June 30, 1971, I would be thrilled!








Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
5156 Posts
Posted 02/05/2013   7:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Alanl here is something that might interest you.

From a little hanbook by David Gronbeck-Jones ,The Centennial Definitives Of Canada , published in 1972








Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous TopicReplies: 22 / Views: 4,962Next Topic  
Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2023 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2023 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.25 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05