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Information About China Handstamps And Overprints On Us Stamps

 
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Pillar Of The Community

1375 Posts
Posted 01/17/2019   11:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add stamperix to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello,

I would like to read more about those "China" wordings over US classic stamps (1894, 1902, Washington-Franklin).

I found following examples:

handstamp CHINA:
https://siegelauctions.com/lots.php...-855-lot-101




overprint China:
https://siegelauctions.com/lots.php...60&page_no=1
(last line)



following questions I wonder about:
1. is the handstamp like a killer cancel, just used in China (Tientsin)?
2. is the overprint an official overprint? (why is it not listed in Scott and not found anywhere else?)
3. are there other countries and possessions which have handstamps and overprints similar to the examples above which are NOT listed in Scott?

In general, as said above, I would also be interested in reading more about this, perhaps there is an article about handstamps and overprints (inofficial and unlisted) on US stamps around 1900?
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Valued Member
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United States
424 Posts
Posted 01/17/2019   8:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add codehappy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The first stamp shown has a China cancel, the second an overprint. The overprints were not authorized (as the Siegel catalog states), which is why they are not listed by Scott.

As for cancellations, the Scott US Specialized catalog does list classic US stamps with Chinese cancels; generally US stamps of this era used in China with an identifiable Chinese cancel get a substantial premium.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2017 Posts
Posted 01/18/2019   12:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You can search on "Darrah overprint" for the printed overprints made and used by the US postmaster in Shanghai and suppressed very quickly by the postal officials in Washington DC. A major auction with them:
http://www.rfrajola.com/catalogs/cba1.pdf

2. Per codehappy, it depends on your definition of official. And even Scott has a flexible definition: they now list issues of Katanga and South Kasai, rebel entities in the Congo, probably because they were tolerated in international mails and therefore legitimately used.

3. There are a fair number, but it can be hard to differentiate what is purely philatelic/a private production, what is official and actually used, what is a local overprint (which Scott would tend not to list), and whether it is just for a name or regime change. When Ghana became independent in 1957 there were various handstamps that fall into the first and last categories. Bangladesh independence had handstamp overprints and surcharges that were locally done but also included philatelic creations.
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Pillar Of The Community
1375 Posts
Posted 01/18/2019   03:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you both.

About the cancels, it's clear and easier than for the overprint. I guess that all those lines in Scott where there is a cancellation premium for "China", this is meant: a China handstamp saying "China" oder a Chinese Postal agency cancellation (Shanghai). Is that correct?

Yes, about the Darrah overprints there is information. But about the one I showed I didn't find anything. If it's an overprint, this is not made privately made at home, so it should exist some reason and documentation for it. Also, why is there a complete set at Siegel, but I don't find a single stamp with this overprint anywhere else. That is a bit strange. So what is this overprint (if it's not Darrah)? Has anybody any information or other examples of this overprint?

And finally about other possessions: Do you know any not authorized overprints or "country name handstamps" (just like the two examples above) from Puerto Rico, Cuba, Philippines or Canal Zone?
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2017 Posts
Posted 01/18/2019   04:36 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I guess that all those lines in Scott where there is a cancellation premium for "China", this is meant: a China handstamp saying "China" oder a Chinese Postal agency cancellation (Shanghai). Is that correct?

It's probably just for the US Shanghai postal agency cancel.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 01/18/2019 04:38 am
Pillar Of The Community
1375 Posts
Posted 01/18/2019   05:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
ok - so for the cancels I understood it.
about the overprint if anybody has any source, I am glad to learn about this.
Also, if someone has heard of a local overprint or handstamp with the country name of the mentioned possessions, this is of interest for me.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1187 Posts
Posted 01/18/2019   08:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stampman2002 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I've posted this before elsewhere, but I thought it germane to the discussion. Enjoy!


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Pillar Of The Community
1375 Posts
Posted 01/21/2019   06:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
hello again,

thank you for all answers that helped a lot.
But what I still didn't find the last days after searching a while, is an article or maybe a book that is about local, inofficial oder simply unlisted overprints and handstamps of the possessions and similar countries. If this overprint "China" above was sold at Siegel they must be quite important? But they are not in Scott and I don't find any other source.

So where can I find information about overprints and "country-name-handstamps" of for example China, Cuba and Puerto Rico, which are not listed in Scott?
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United States
263 Posts
Posted 01/21/2019   11:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add craigk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
An older article outlining Shanghai post markings along with a brief history of the Shanghai K overprints

http://www.stampnewsonline.net/Stam...hanghais.pdf




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Valued Member
United States
132 Posts
Posted 01/21/2019   12:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Richard Frajola to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The 50c Orange stamp shown in original post has a fake "China" rubber handstamp on it. It is NOT a Darrah overprint. The 2c in same post is part of a cancel (but not applied at Shanghai).
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Pillar Of The Community
1375 Posts
Posted 01/21/2019   2:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamperix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thank you both, interesting to read the article. Yes, the China handstamp is Tientsin, not Shanghai.

About the 50c orange: thank you for your thoughts about a possible fake. I didn't think of a fake as Siegel states directly that this is not a Darrah overprint and, because of that, rare. There was a buyer in any case, and it's not long ago (2013). Also, they say "handstamp overprint", which why I thought this is an overprint, but of course "handstamp overprint" are two words that don't really work together.

What I now wonder about is: how can we know that this is a fake. Is it by comparison to other known non-Darrah "handstamp overprints" (where I asked about the source above), or is it just because there is no source at all and it's not listed in Scott and it's not Darrah, so is must be a fake?

If the last point it true: I think I saw some time ago an information about some other handstamps or overprints with country names which are not listed in Scott, I think it was Cuba or Puerto Rico. Has anybody heard of that? Or asked in a different way: can we assume that all known handstamps/overprints with country names are listed in Scott and if not, it's a fake?

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New Member
United States
4 Posts
Posted 01/29/2020   3:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Used US to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have some interest in information on the second "China" handstamp/ overprint shown in the original post. I have three examples of this on US stamps. APEX was not able to provide any background when I sent one in for cert. I've always thought that it resembles German handstamp overprints from their offices in China. Any info would be appreciated.
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United States
4 Posts
Posted 01/29/2020   3:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Used US to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
A couple more:



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Valued Member
204 Posts
Posted 01/29/2020   5:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Andyrich74 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting conversation. Just the proverbial fly on the wall as I know nothing about the above, but good stuff.
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