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Cinderella Stamp? - [found]

 
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Posted 08/09/2019   10:48 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Gentleman1892 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello there!

I'm wondering about this one, I guess it isn't a postage stamp, more likely to be a cinderella stamp or something local, like freightstamp or so.

It sure looks like it has been gummed/ had glue on the backside and been on a envelope, since traces of the envelope itself is there, but there's no glue on the 'stamp' anymore.

Any ideas fellas of its heritage/date and who's that lady? :D




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Edited by Gentleman1892 - 08/09/2019 10:59 pm

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Posted 08/09/2019   11:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I believe this is Austrian. The labels seem to be charity labels benefitting orphanages and/or promoting adoption. I have seen them in various designs, but always with 2 names used. Those that I have seen have been about equal numbers split between boys and girls.

From the design/artwork this appears to be an early one.
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Posted 08/09/2019   1:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Gentleman1892 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
[bookbndrbob]


I believe this is Austrian. The labels seem to be charity labels benefitting orphanages and/or promoting adoption. I have seen them in various designs, but always with 2 names used. Those that I have seen have been about equal numbers split between boys and girls.

From the design/artwork this appears to be an early one.


Cheers!

Oh, how awesome isn't that? - Thank You, and I hope it gives a good lead/ hint to find whatever it is, I thought it was some kind of cinderella stamp from the mediterranean somewhere, but your explanation is better, so it's most likely a charity label stamp, kind of cinderella stamp,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charity_label.

No idea how rare this could be, but I guess this particular one is from 1900-1910 era perhaps, 1st decade of 20th century.

PS. Changed the 1st post's topic name. DS.
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Edited by Gentleman1892 - 08/09/2019 1:23 pm
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Posted 08/09/2019   2:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Not seen anything like it before.
Else is a feminine given name, appearing in German, Danish and Norwegian. It is a shortened form of Elisabeth.

The Cornucopia seems odd, papers flowing forth?
and the ticket numbered? (odd for a charity seal)
Is it perforate on the right hand side?


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Posted 08/09/2019   3:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The information I gave was based on my limited experience with similar labels. About twenty years ago I purchased an old cover with 6 to 12 of these labels affixed to the front. I am reasonably sure it was Austrian. I traded this cover after owning it less than a year.

Since that time, I have seen other similar labels at stamp shows and on eBay. I remember them because they are odd (all having 2 similar names in perhaps different languages), and all being slightly different in design or color. All of these labels have had halftone photographic portraits of the children, rather than drawn images. So, I would date them as not as old as Gentleman1892's label.

I cannot recall if any of these labels had the typeset counting numbers, but some may have.
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Edited by bookbndrbob - 08/09/2019 3:49 pm
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Posted 08/09/2019   7:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Gentleman1892 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Adding more information about the stamp itself below.

Size: Length (sides) 1.142 inches / 2.9cm and Width (top/bottom) is 0.7874 (3/4) inces /2cm.




Here you can spot a piece of paper, the stamp has been glued to perhaps an envelop with other stamps or so:





---------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

[rod222]

Not seen anything like it before.
Else is a feminine given name, appearing in German, Danish and Norwegian. It is a shortened form of Elisabeth.

The Cornucopia seems odd, papers flowing forth?
and the ticket numbered? (odd for a charity seal)
Is it perforate on the right hand side?


--> - Yeah, both are female names, Ellen and Else, I thought at first it was some kind of nickname of some woman named like you mentioned Elizabeth or so, but having them two combined like that must mean something, either it is a full nickname for a certain lady or perhaps an organisation, charity or whatever, but I can't find anything on it.

At first glance I suspected it was a portrait of a goddess from ancient Rome or Greece and therefore I thought it could be from the Mediterranean area.

Perhaps should try to do a search using german language, if it's related to Austria or so.

--------------------------------------------------

Quote:

[bookbndrbob]

The information I gave was based on my limited experience with similar labels. About twenty years ago I purchased an old cover with 6 to 12 of these labels affixed to the front. I am reasonably sure it was Austrian. I traded this cover after owning it less than a year.

Since that time, I have seen other similar labels at stamp shows and on eBay. I remember them because they are odd (all having 2 similar names in perhaps different languages), and all being slightly different in design or color. All of these labels have had halftone photographic portraits of the children, rather than drawn images. So, I would date them as not as old as Gentleman1892's label.

I cannot recall if any of these labels had the typeset counting numbers, but some may have.


----> - I see, interesting information anyways, appreciated, I think you could be right.

This one I found in a bag filled with postage stamps from all around the world and eras, containing mainly stamps still attached to envelopes.

To be continued...
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Posted 08/09/2019   8:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Best bet is to rely on Bob's memory.
Dashed if I could find anything similar on the internet.

The two queries I have is the Cornucopia (Icon of abundance) the pieces of paper and the typeset numbering.

It could be a stamp, seal, coupon, token, ticket, licence (union dues), permit, carnet, pass.

I have checked my 450 "previous unidentifieds" database...nothing

With your approval, I can send to my Cinderella Club for broadcast in print, and seek ID.

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Posted 08/09/2019   9:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Gentleman1892 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
EDIT!:

I typed in search queries but this time using German and my Google search query was: 'ELLEN else waisenhaus Briefmarke', 'Ellen Else' is on the stamp itself and then I used the word 'waisenhaus' for 'orphanage' (thanks to bookbndrbob for the tips) and then 'Briefmarke' means 'stamp' I guess, used the translator and got a nice hit.

I found this: (my Antivirus warned me about an unsecured website when clicking on the picture below, so please avoid clicking on it if you are Googling it, probably just old html/protocol, but anyways.)



So I kept on searching and it's a poster stamp, precisely who did issue these stamps I don't know.

And I don't know really how old it is, but could easily be between mid-19th century to WWI, but I guess it's around the end of the 19th century or the 1st decade of 20th century, anyways, fascinating object for me, fun!

In german it's called 'Reklamemarke' = Poster Stamp.

Yet I don't know if it's from Germany, but could be Austria as bookbndrbob pointed out.

A big thanks to both of you, bookbndrbob and rod222 for this Ellen Else stamp quest! :)

Link in German (Wikipedia): https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reklamemarke

Link in English: (Wikipedia)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poster_stamp

-----------------------------------

Quote:

[rod222]

Best bet is to rely on Bob's memory. Dashed if I could find anything similar on the internet. The two queries I have is the Cornucopia (Icon of abundance) the pieces of paper and the typeset numbering. It could be a stamp, seal, coupon, token, ticket, licence (union dues), permit, carnet, pass. I have checked my 450 "previous unidentifieds" database...nothing


--> - Yeah, exactly, I've tried searching for it with different search queries and yet no result for that specific item.


Quote:

[rod222]
With your approval, I can send to my Cinderella Club for broadcast in print, and seek ID.


--> - Absolutely! - You have my approval, will be indeed interesting to see if anyone can recognize it. Much appreciated, Thank You.

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Edited by Gentleman1892 - 08/09/2019 10:57 pm
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Posted 08/09/2019   11:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Gentleman, I think your dating on this label is good. My guess, based on the design and technical details (drawn image rather than halftone screen) is that this is 1895-1910 vintage.

Another guess is that these were printed in a sheet of different orphan children.
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Posted 08/10/2019   01:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Bravo ! Gentleman1892.
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Posted 08/10/2019   02:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Some are written "Lucky Brand"
Which may explain the Cornucopia icon.

PS: The scrap of perforated paper on the back, is simply gum migration
with stamps packed together, and a collector has separated without soaking.




Bob was right on the money.
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Edited by rod222 - 08/10/2019 02:15 am
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Posted 08/10/2019   08:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Gentleman1892 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi again!

Yes, finally found something more about it.

Three links related to this:

1) https://www.leaduser.com/suche/?typ...a6c54&page=9

2) https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Bo...JY3C0Y2-QKoM

3) https://www.iberlibro.com/servlet/B...vvqwIOH3JrzU

--------------------
And from the first one (seen also in rod222's post) I used the search query 'Vornamen Reklamemarke', since I saw at 'Series' column that it's called 'Vornamen'.



After this I found an ad (2nd and 3rd URL) and a short description in German, where I used the translator and it said:

"Lucky mark, lottery, name, 21731, size 3x2 cm. Original old advertising stamp (poster stamp) that was used at the time for advertising."

(Original: Glücksmarke, Lotterie, Namen, 21731, Größe 3x2 cm. Original alte Reklamemarke (poster stamp) die seinerzeit für die Werbung benutzt wurde.)



And on another (different manufacturer I guess):

"Name Lucky Mark, 109440, size 3x2 cm. Original old advertising stamp (poster stamp) that was used at the time for advertising. A catalog about seal brands and advertisement stamps."

(Original: Namen-Glücksmarke, 109440, Größe 3x2 cm. Original alte Reklamemarke (poster stamp) die seinerzeit für die Werbung benutzt wurde. Ein Katalog über Siegelmarken und Reklamemarken)



------------

Summing it up:

1) It's a poster stamp, kind of what you get from a lottery of some kind, looks like it's a lucky mark based from few descriptions.

2) Definitely from 1890-1910, or at least a good guess.

3) Perhaps it's from Germany?

4) The women or children/ girls pictured, part of some ad I guess, random motives or used to be real people?

5) Now, it would be nice to see which machine used to give these :D, since I guess they weren't put on papers/ envelopes.

-----------------------------

Quote:
[bookbndrbob]

Gentleman, I think your dating on this label is good. My guess, based on the design and technical details (drawn image rather than halftone screen) is that this is 1895-1910 vintage.

Another guess is that these were printed in a sheet of different orphan children.

---> Yeah, I guess its origins are from that era, I completely agree with you and Thank You for giving the clue about possible Austrian and orphanage, it helped this whole investigation quest!

------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
[rod222]
Bravo ! Gentleman1892.

--->- YAY! And cheers to you and Bob, helped a lot!


Quote:
[rod222]

Some are written "Lucky Brand"
Which may explain the Cornucopia icon.

- Yeah, good observation, must be that.


Quote:
[rod222]PS: The scrap of perforated paper on the back, is simply gum migration
with stamps packed together, and a collector has separated without soaking.


--> - Must likely as you described yes, they've washed other stamps and this one got stuck to another one or so.




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Posted 08/10/2019   09:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just for the record, based on the Cornucopia icon, I did search "Lottery" cinderella, when you first posted.
My original thoughts were perhaps Ireland, where similar cynosure was addressed on theirs.
The only other country with Lottery stamps were French.

Neither were successful with Google.
I note that even "Leaduser" does not know the origin.

Update:
Should have checked my own lottery database.
Author : Darrin
Unidentified, but most responders suggested Hungary..........
2012




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Edited by rod222 - 08/10/2019 09:23 am
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Posted 08/10/2019   09:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Irish Lottery stamps, and others........
http://goscf.com/t/26592 br /
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Posted 08/10/2019   5:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Gentleman1892 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
[rod222]

Just for the record, based on the Cornucopia icon, I did search "Lottery" cinderella, when you first posted.
My original thoughts were perhaps Ireland, where similar cynosure was addressed on theirs.
The only other country with Lottery stamps were French.

Neither were successful with Google.
I note that even "Leaduser" does not know the origin.

--> - Well, good thinking of you, I didn't think of that at all, checking such details, you was on the right track all along.


Quote:
[rod222]

Update:
Should have checked my own lottery database.
Author : Darrin
Unidentified, but most responders suggested Hungary..........
2012

[picture]
------------

Irish Lottery stamps, and others........
http://goscf.com/t/26592 br /

--> - Yeah, exactly, 'leaduser' didn't knew an origin either and the picture from 'Darrin' they're from Hungary, based on the first names and probably the manufacturer or ad company.

So this one could come from Ireland after all? - France did also these kind of stuff I see.
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Posted 12/25/2019   1:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Umby-Ch to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Awesome this post and the research on it. something new learn today too. Thanks


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