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The Mystery Of US Small Hole Coil Perforations

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 7 / Views: 666Next Topic  
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Posted 04/06/2020   5:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add jogil to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
As written by cfrphoto in http://goscf.com/t/41100 and http://goscf.com/t/62519

There are some U.S. Stickney rotary press wet printed coil stamps that have been found with smaller perforation holes of around 0.038"-0.039" diameters found on Scott 496 (1919), 496a, 842 (1939), etc. rather than the usual large 0.042"-0.043" diameters and some extra large 0.046"-0.0465" diameters. (These are considered different from the dry printed Huck coil stamp regular size small perforations with 0.037" diameters.) Also, a coil stamp Scott 723 (1932) has been found with 0.040" perforation hole diameter.

I emailed Rosback asking for the different sizes of the perforating pins that they had which were as follows:

Rosback Rotary Wheel Perforator Perforating Pin
0.0345" width X 3/4" length
This perforator was used to perforate U.S. Scott 536 (1919)

Rosback Stroke Bar Perforator Perforating Pins
0.0395" width X 13/16" & 1 1/16" lengths.
0.0400" width X 13/16" & 7/8" & 3/4" lengths.
0.0405" width X 13/16" & 1 1/16" lengths.
0.0415" width X 13/16" length.
This perforator was used to perforate some U.S. high value documentary revenue stamps from 1914-1958

I also read the following:

The stroke perforators appear to have a metric pin diameter of 1 mm (0.0395"), and observed hole size similarly about 3% less than the pin size. The size of pins examined in some early manual stroke perforators made in the U.S., such as by the Rosback Co., measure 0.0395 inches in diameter (1.00 mm), and these measurements match exactly the measurements of replacement pins supplied by Rosback for these early perforators. These old machines also punch holes undersized by 1-4% depending on how they are used (Mustacich, 2015).
See http://www.battleship-revenues.com/...erfMeas.html
See http://www.battleship-revenues.com/...les/Ros.html

The above Rosback perforating pin sizes would result in the following reduced perforation hole size (1%-4%) ranges:

0.0395" pin diameter = 0.039105"(@-1%)-0.03792"(@-4%) range perforation hole diameters (0.038315"@-3%) (0.03871"@-2%)
0.0400" pin diameter = 0.0396"(@-1%)-0.0384"(@-4%) range perforation hole diameters (0.0388"@-3%) (0.0392"@-2%)
0.0405" pin diameter = 0.040095"(@-1%)-0.0388"(@-4%) range perforation hole diameters (0.039285"@-3%) (0.03969"@-2%)
0.0415" pin diameter = 0.041085"(@-1%)-0.03984"(@-4%) range perforation hole diameters (0.040255"@-3%) (0.04067"@-2%)

Thus, there may be the possibility that Rosback stroke perforator pins may have been used on a Stickney coil bar perforator.
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Edited by jogil - 04/07/2020 09:30 am

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Posted 04/07/2020   07:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
These stamps were perforated by the BEP with a Rosback stroke perforator perforation gauge of around 11.75 (12) perforations per 2 cm.

Thus, the perforation hole size diameters found on these stamps should give a good idea whether any BEP Rosback stroke perforator pins may have been used on a BEP Stickney bar perforator for perforating coils.

The spacing between the pins and holes would differ affecting the gauge with the Stickney bar perforator perforation gauge being around 9.85 (10) perforations per 2 cm. (Also, some coil revenue type category stamps were Stickney rotary press printed and Stickney bar perforator perforated.)

The four portrait documentary stamp types shown above were issued in 1914 and 1915. These stamps are all engraved, and perforated 12. The $60 denomination is inscribed "Series of 1915". The other denominations are inscribed "Series of 1914".

These stamps were issued in vertical strips of four, which were imperforate on the top, bottom, and right side, thus all single stamps will have one or two straight edges.

The catalog details are as follows:

0060 D. (1915 - Sc. #R225) - Brown - Abraham Lincoln.
0100 D. (1914 - Sc. #R226) - Green - George Washington.
0500 D. (1914 - Sc. #R227) - Blue - Alexander Hamilton.
1000 D. (1914 - Sc. #R228) - Orange - James Madison.

The five portrait-type documentary stamps shown above were issued in 1917. These stamps DO NOT have an imprinted series date.

Some varieties have different colored serial numbers.

The catalog details are as follows:

0030 D. (1917 - Sc. #R246) - Deep Orange - Ulysses S. Grant.
0060 D. (1917 - Sc. #R247) - Brown - Abraham Lincoln.
0100 D. (1917 - Sc. #R248) - Green - George Washington.
0500 D. (1917 - Sc. #R249) - Blue - Alexander Hamilton.
1000 D. (1917 - Sc. #R250) - Orange - James Madison.

All of the major documentary stamp types of 1917 were overprinted "Series 1940" during 1940.

The catalog details for stamps that are hand-stamped "Series 1940" are:

0030 D. (1940 - Sc. #R282) - Vermilion - Ulysses S. Grant.
0060 D. (1940 - Sc. #R283) - Brown - Abraham Lincoln.
0100 D. (1940 - Sc. #R284) - Green - George Washington.
0500 D. (1940 - Sc. #R285) - Blue - Alexander Hamilton.
1000 D. (1940 - Sc. #R286) - Orange - James Madison.

The hand-stamps on a couple of these high denomination stamps come in different sizes.

Reference: https://www.stamp-collecting-world....ps_1914.html

1940 -- Overprinted "Series 1940"

0030 D. (Sc. #R306) - Thomas Corwin (1794-1865) - Secretary of the Treasury (1850-1853).
0050 D. (Sc. #R306A) - James Guthrie (1792-1869) - Secretary of the Treasury (1853-1857).
0060 D. (Sc. #R307) - Howell Cobb (1815-1868) - Secretary of the Treasury (1857-1860).
0100 D. (Sc. #R308) - Philip F. Thomas (1810-1890) - Secretary of the Treasury (1860-1861).
0500 D. (Sc. #R309) - John A. Dix (1798-1879) - Secretary of the Treasury (1861).
1000 D. (Sc. #R309) - Salmon P. Chase (1808-1873) - Secretary of the Treasury (1861-1864).

1941 -- Overprinted "Series 1941"

0030 D. (Sc. #R330)
0050 D. (Sc. #R331)
0060 D. (Sc. #R332)
0100 D. (Sc. #R333)
0500 D. (Sc. #R334)
1000 D. (Sc. #R335)

1942 -- Overprinted "Series 1942"

0030 D. (Sc. #R355)
0050 D. (Sc. #R356)
0060 D. (Sc. #R357)
0100 D. (Sc. #R358)
0500 D. (Sc. #R359)
1000 D. (Sc. #R360)

1943 -- Overprinted "Series 1943"

0030 D. (Sc. #R380)
0050 D. (Sc. #R381)
0060 D. (Sc. #R382)
0100 D. (Sc. #R383)
0500 D. (Sc. #R384)
1000 D. (Sc. #R385)

1944 -- Overprinted "Series 1944"

0030 D. (Sc. #R405)
0050 D. (Sc. #R406)
0060 D. (Sc. #R407)
0100 D. (Sc. #R408)
0500 D. (Sc. #R409)
1000 D. (Sc. #R410)

1945 -- Overprinted "Series 1945"

0030 D. (Sc. #R430)
0050 D. (Sc. #R431)
0060 D. (Sc. #R432)
0100 D. (Sc. #R433)
0500 D. (Sc. #R434)
1000 D. (Sc. #R435)

1946 -- Overprinted "Series 1946"

0030 D. (Sc. #R455)
0050 D. (Sc. #R456)
0060 D. (Sc. #R457)
0100 D. (Sc. #R458)
0500 D. (Sc. #R459)
1000 D. (Sc. #R460)

1947 -- Overprinted "Series 1947"

0030 D. (Sc. #R480)
0050 D. (Sc. #R481)
0060 D. (Sc. #R482)
0100 D. (Sc. #R483)
0500 D. (Sc. #R484)
1000 D. (Sc. #R485)

1948 -- Overprinted "Series 1948"

0030 D. (Sc. #R505)
0050 D. (Sc. #R506)
0060 D. (Sc. #R507)
0100 D. (Sc. #R508)
0500 D. (Sc. #R509)
1000 D. (Sc. #R510)

1949 -- Overprinted "Series 1949"

0030 D. (Sc. #R530)
0050 D. (Sc. #R531)
0060 D. (Sc. #R532)
0100 D. (Sc. #R533)
0500 D. (Sc. #R534)
1000 D. (Sc. #R535)

1950 -- Overprinted "Series 1950"

0030 D. (Sc. #R555)
0050 D. (Sc. #R556)
0060 D. (Sc. #R557)
0100 D. (Sc. #R558)
0500 D. (Sc. #R559)
1000 D. (Sc. #R560)

1951 -- Overprinted "Series 1951"

0030 D. (Sc. #R580)
0050 D. (Sc. #R581)
0060 D. (Sc. #R582)
0100 D. (Sc. #R583)
0500 D. (Sc. #R584)
1000 D. (Sc. #R585)

1952 -- Overprinted "Series 1952"

0030 D. (Sc. #R611)
0050 D. (Sc. #R612)
0060 D. (Sc. #R613)
0100 D. (Sc. #R614)
0500 D. (Sc. #R615)
1000 D. (Sc. #R616)

02500 D. (1952 - Sc. #R617) - William Windom (1827-1891) - Secretary of the Treasury (1889-1891).
05000 D. (1952 - Sc. #R618) - Charles J. Folger (1818-1884) - Secretary of the Treasury (1881-1884).
10000 D. (1952 - Sc. #R619) - Walter Q. Gresham (1832-1895) - Secretary of the Treasury (1884).

1953 -- Overprinted "Series 1953"

00030 D. (Sc. #R645)
00050 D. (Sc. #R646)
00060 D. (Sc. #R647)
00100 D. (Sc. #R648)
00500 D. (Sc. #R649)
01000 D. (Sc. #R650)
02500 D. (Sc. #R651)
05000 D. (Sc. #R652)
10000 D. (Sc. #R653)

1954 -- Overprinted "Series 1954"

00030 D. (Sc. #R679)
00050 D. (Sc. #R680)
00060 D. (Sc. #R681)
00100 D. (Sc. #R682)
00500 D. (Sc. #R683)
01000 D. (Sc. #R684)
02500 D. (Sc. #R685)
05000 D. (Sc. #R686)
10000 D. (Sc. #R687)

1955 -- Overprinted "Series 1955"

00030 D. (Sc. #R688)
00050 D. (Sc. #R689)
00060 D. (Sc. #R690)
00100 D. (Sc. #R691)
00500 D. (Sc. #R692)
01000 D. (Sc. #R693)
02500 D. (Sc. #R694)
05000 D. (Sc. #R695)
10000 D. (Sc. #R696)

1956 -- Overprinted "Series 1956"

00030 D. (Sc. #R697)
00050 D. (Sc. #R698)
00060 D. (Sc. #R699)
00100 D. (Sc. #R700)
00500 D. (Sc. #R701)
01000 D. (Sc. #R702)
02500 D. (Sc. #R703)
05000 D. (Sc. #R704)
10000 D. (Sc. #R705)

1957 -- Overprinted "Series 1957"

00030 D. (Sc. #R715)
00050 D. (Sc. #R716)
00060 D. (Sc. #R717)
00100 D. (Sc. #R718)
00500 D. (Sc. #R719)
01000 D. (Sc. #R720)
02500 D. (Sc. #R721)
05000 D. (Sc. #R722)
10000 D. (Sc. #R723)

1958 -- Overprinted "Series 1958"

00030 D. (Sc. #R724)
00050 D. (Sc. #R725)
00060 D. (Sc. #R726)
00100 D. (Sc. #R727)
00500 D. (Sc. #R728)
01000 D. (Sc. #R729)
02500 D. (Sc. #R730)
05000 D. (Sc. #R731)
10000 D. (Sc. #R732)

Reference: https://www.stamp-collecting-world...._1940P3.html
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Edited by jogil - 04/07/2020 08:38 am
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Posted 04/08/2020   10:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For web fed Stickney rotary press wet printed coil stamps a web fed Stickney bar perforator was used to perforate them gauge 10 (9.85) from 1914 to 1958.

With regards to different perforation hole sizes, the following have been found as posted by cfrphoto on SCF:

0.038"-0.039" small size holes on some U.S. Scott 496 variety as 496a (1919) and some U.S. Scott 842 (1939), 843 (1939), 844 (1939)

0.040" medium/intermediate size holes on some U.S. Scott 723 (1932)

0.042"-0.043" large size holes found on most Stickney rotary press coils (Known BEP Stickney bar and/or wheel perforator pin hole size)

0.064"-0.0645" very large size holes found on some U.S. 449 (1915), 450 (1915), 489 (1917) (Known BEP Stickney bar perforator pin hole size)

It is the pin hole sizes in the 0.038"-0.040" range for the Stickney coil bar perforator that have recently been discovered that are of interest.

Can these be accounted for by a change of perforating pins of different size widths that may have been used at different times?


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Edited by jogil - 04/08/2020 10:25 am
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Posted 04/08/2020   11:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The BEP also used a Rosback stroke bar perforator for perforating some high value documentary stamps from 1914 to 1958. It is interesting that this has the same timeline as the Stickney bar coil perforator. Also, Stickney rotary press printed revenue coils were perforated by a Stickney bar perforator.

The most versatile Rosback perforator pin size appears to be the 0.0400" width with 13/16", 7/8 and 3/4" lengths due to the larger variety of different lengths available. Also, the potential calculated possible ranges of 1%-4% (per Robert Mustacich) hole size reduction tends to be over the 0.038"-0.040" hole ranges.

0.0400" Rosback pin diameter
0.0396"(at 1% perforation hole diameter reduction)
0.0392"(at 2% perforation hole diameter reduction)
0.0388"(at 3% perforation hole diameter reduction)
0.0384"(at 4% perforation hole diameter reduction)

However, other Rosback pin possibilities may be
0.0395" pin diameter = 0.0391"(@-1%), 0.0387"(@-2%), 0.0383"(@-3%), 0.0379"(@-4%) perforation hole diameters
0.0405" pin diameter = 0.0401"(@-1%), 0.0397"(@-2%), 0.0393"(@-3%), 0.0388"(@-4%) perforation hole diameters
0.0415" pin diameter = 0.0411"(@-1%), 0.0407"(@-2%), 0.0403"(@-3%), 0.0398"(@-4%) perforation hole diameters
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Edited by jogil - 04/08/2020 12:45 pm
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Posted 04/08/2020   11:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
0.0395" pin diameter = 0.039105"(@-1%)-0.03792"(@-4%) range perforation hole diameters (0.038315"@-3%) (0.03871"@-2%)
0.0400" pin diameter = 0.0396"(@-1%)-0.0384"(@-4%) range perforation hole diameters (0.0388"@-3%) (0.0392"@-2%)
0.0405" pin diameter = 0.040095"(@-1%)-0.0388"(@-4%) range perforation hole diameters (0.039285"@-3%) (0.03969"@-2%)
0.0415" pin diameter = 0.041085"(@-1%)-0.03984"(@-4%) range perforation hole diameters (0.040255"@-3%) (0.04067"@-2%)


Not to quibble, but ... When you start with a measured number having 3 significant digits, the most digits in any subsequent calculation is also 3 digits. Your calculations imply a degree of accuracy which isn't there.
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Posted 04/08/2020   12:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
0.0395" pin diameter = 0.0391"(@-1%)-0.0379"(@-4%) range perforation hole diameters (0.0383"@-3%) (0.0387"@-2%)
0.0400" pin diameter = 0.0396"(@-1%)-0.0384"(@-4%) range perforation hole diameters (0.0388"@-3%) (0.0392"@-2%)
0.0405" pin diameter = 0.0401"(@-1%)-0.0388"(@-4%) range perforation hole diameters (0.0393"@-3%) (0.0397"@-2%)
0.0415" pin diameter = 0.0411"(@-1%)-0.0398"(@-4%) range perforation hole diameters (0.0403"@-3%) (0.0407"@-2%)
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Edited by jogil - 04/08/2020 12:59 pm
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Posted 04/09/2020   11:36 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Old Rosback Perforating Machine Patents:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US374880A
https://patents.google.com/patent/US387543A
https://patents.google.com/patent/US732893A
https://patents.google.com/patent/US959966A
---
https://patents.google.com/patent/US1125723A
https://patents.google.com/patent/US1127092A
The BEP used the above last two listed patented Rosback perforators.
---

The above two pictures show the BEP Stickney coil bar perforator.
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Posted 04/18/2020   09:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Stickney and the BEP provided Stickney rotary presses (large/small) and Stickney bar perforators and Stickney wheel and bar perforators to countries such as Belgium, Canada, Cuba, Czechoslovakia and Sweden. Of interest would be looking at the Stickney rotary press coil stamps of Czechoslovakia and Sweden that were perforated gauge 10 since this is the same gauge as for U.S. Stickney coils.
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