Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read
Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some stamps?
Our stamp forum is completely free! Register Now!

US 209 - PSAG Vs PFE

Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 23 / Views: 729Next Topic
Page: of 2
Valued Member
United States
270 Posts
Posted 04/06/2021   2:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add craigk to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
This 209 recently sold on eBay w/ PSAG cert. IMO, it is the same stamp that was previously sent in to the PF. Any thoughts?


Send note to Staff

Pillar Of The Community
764 Posts
Posted 04/06/2021   2:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Many similarities. But also differences. Why punch out the unpunched perforation? And the top left corner perforation does not fit.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
3520 Posts
Posted 04/06/2021   2:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
right and bottom perfs are clearly the same. Reperfed at top and left to improve centering!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
6099 Posts
Posted 04/06/2021   3:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There is a reason why Rupp and Siegel do not deal in PSAG certs unless it is absolutely unavoidable.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
682 Posts
Posted 04/06/2021   5:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with others. Bottom and right sides match, undeniably. PSE blew it.

Edited: Because Top isn't Bottom!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by mootermutt987 - 04/06/2021 5:22 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
6099 Posts
Posted 04/06/2021   5:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
PSE blew it.


PSAG
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
1107 Posts
Posted 04/06/2021   6:09 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I was concerned about some PSAG certs in the recent Kelleher auction (#755). There was one I'm forgetting which that was certed as unused, but looked like a lightened cancel. The ones I remember were about color. Lot 1204 - claimed to be a bright red brown- and lot 1228 - claimed to be a violet 70c. The colors just didn't look right on those. I know one can't trust the screen for color, but I just didn't trust the cert either. Do you guys think those look correct?
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
330 Posts
Posted 04/06/2021   6:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The bottom perfs have been altered as well. Check the 4th perf tip from the left, the slant direction changed. As to the right side, some of the perf tip fibers have been removed.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
6099 Posts
Posted 04/06/2021   7:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Craig - Great catch by the way.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
6099 Posts
Posted 04/06/2021   8:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rlsny - I would not touch any of the stamps that you reference without a PF cert. Problem is that those lots you pointed out have new certs that preclude the lots being placed on extension.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
6099 Posts
Posted 04/06/2021   8:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a PSAG certified Scott US 70c from Kelleher Sale 755:



It clearly is not mint as per PSAG and the lot description. It has a not so lightened (more like faded) pen cancel.

I should note that it was not sold. But how on earth did PSAG call it out as mint and how did it end up in the catalog?

Lot 1225

https://stampauctionnetwork.com/V/v75562.cfm
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
1107 Posts
Posted 04/06/2021   9:04 pm  Show Profile Check rlsny's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rlsny to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, Kelleher actually withdrew that one from the sale.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
6099 Posts
Posted 04/06/2021   9:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
PSAG calling that stamp mint is really bad. It makes you wonder how much deep diving and attention to detail they would put into something far less obvious. Kelleher listing it is right up there on the badness scale. When is the last time anyone can remember seeing something like that in a Siegel sale. The funniest part is that they did find it to be regummed!
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Learn More...
United States
201 Posts
Posted 04/06/2021   10:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
craigk - Good eye! Thanks for exposing another reperfed stamp being pawned off as genuine.

I am not a dealer, but the opinion I express here is based upon many conversations with dealers who have been in the business for decades. It appears to me that there are a few fairly well known wholesale distributors who serve as middlemen for these stamp doctors, and for some reason, nobody is anxious to call them out and expose them. The dealers may know that these middlemen are of questionable integrity, but they continue to do business with them because they are dependent upon them to fill out their inventories. If they complain to the wholesaler about a bad stamp, the wholesaler will almost certainly plead ignorance. If there is an accompanying clean cert, as in this case, some dealers may even be tempted to just pass it on.

It irritates me tremendously that we have to rely upon expertizing entities, and yet we can't really trust their certificates. They neither tell us who the examiners were nor what methods were used to examine the stamp. We don't know what findings are unequivocal, and what is uncertain. This information would be far more useful than a completely subjective numerical grade.



Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
682 Posts
Posted 04/06/2021   10:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply


Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
PSE blew it.

PSAG


Oops! Mooter blew it.

It would be interesting to find out the 'accuracy rate' of the various expertizing entities. These examples are pretty clear, but I would expect there would be arguments over lots of other opinions that are not so clear. It would also be interesting to know the 'accuracy rate' over time. Who has gotten worse? Who has cleaned up their act? Etc.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
Learn More...
United States
201 Posts
Posted 04/06/2021   11:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add widglo46 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rogdcam -
Quote:
Problem is that those lots you pointed out have new certs that preclude the lots being placed on extension.


Actually, Kelleher does allow extensions on lots with PSAG certs even if they are less than 5 years old because the PSAG isn't on their lists of accepted certifying entities. The same is true for Siegel, but not for all auction houses. Policies can change abruptly, so always check the Terms and Conditions of the auction house before bidding.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous TopicReplies: 23 / Views: 729Next Topic  
Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.


Go to Top of Page
Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2021 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2021 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.23 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05