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How Did I End Up Paying Max Bid In Kelleher Weekly Online Sale?

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Posted 02/23/2022   1:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add rogdcam to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
In the 20 February Kelleher Online Sale, I bid $50 on a lot. The bidding is through SAN only. There are no "book" bids, telephone bids or any other means of bidding. The lot opened at $35 and someone else bid before me. When I entered $50 my bid went green at $41 indicating I was winning. The auction closed and my bid was still green a $41. This afternoon I receive an invoice for the won lot at $50 plus tip, tax and shipping.

The bid increments at the $40-50 level do not support a bump to $50 from $41.

Has anyone else experienced their bids being pushed to their highest amount?

I know that I could call David or Max and ask the question, but I want to see what others have experienced.

The following is from Kelleher's T&C's regarding bidding:


Quote:
Bids shall be made in the steps set forth on the bidding page, and will be reduced to the nearest bid increment. Lots will be sold to the highest bidder at no more than the bid price, and possibly less if the bid is above the Suggested Bid value listed and above any reserve. Competitive bids will raise one another at one step above the next highest step, provided they are at or above the Suggested Bid.

Ex. Suggested Bid $200, Bid $150, full bid up to the Suggested Bid will be taken. Ex. Suggested Bid $200, bid $300, bid up to the Suggested Bid is taken, $200.
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Posted 02/23/2022   2:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Greed knows no bounds! ( I hope you will complain?)


Peter
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Posted 02/23/2022   2:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You are quoting the T&C for the Kelleher auctions, not the mail sale T&C. They seem to open everything at 1/2 of the estimate, so if it opened at $35, I'm guessing the estimate was $70. The mail sale T&C states:

Quote:
2. Bids shall be made in the steps set forth on the bidding page, and will be reduced to the nearest bid increment. Lots will be sold to the highest bidder at no more than the bid price, and possibly less if the bid is above the Suggested Bid value listed and above any reserve. Competitive bids will raise one another at one step above the next highest step, provided they are at or above the Suggested Bid.

Ex. Suggested Bid $200, Bid $150, full bid up to the Suggested Bid will be taken. Ex. Suggested Bid $200, bid $300, bid up to the Suggested Bid is taken, $200.


They treated your bid exactly how they told you there were going to in the T&C. I only bid in the mail sales if I'm bidding the opener, or there is something I absolutely have to have
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Edited by SPQR - 02/23/2022 3:02 pm
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Posted 02/23/2022   2:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add gmot to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This happened to me about 18 months ago (went from $500 to $550, yet at close & afterwards it was won at $500). I asked and received this response -

"There are under bidders for the lot. Also, please note we have other platforms that being using for bidding (e.g. our website,Philasearch.com, email, phone, Fax) which are not reflecting on SAN on real time."

Whether there actually was another bidder in this case is open to conjecture. Due to this and a couple similar experiences with other auction houses, I now never use max bid on SAN. Probably lost out on some lots that way, but I like knowing what I'm paying for a lot more.
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Edited by gmot - 02/23/2022 2:22 pm
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Posted 02/23/2022   2:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
SPQR - You have your T&C's mixed up and are quoting the wrong one. When you open the T&C's link from SAN the T&C's for the online mail bid sales are NOT the first in line. Look down the page.
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Posted 02/23/2022   3:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SPQR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rogdcam - sorry, we are both quoting the same language - I misread your post and thought you were quoting the auction terms.

The terms basically say they will use the full bid price up to the suggested value. If the open was $35, that means that they will use your full bid up to the $70 suggested bid.
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Posted 02/23/2022   3:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
GMOT - I am with you and rarely do what I did this week. This particular sale had no other options, so I broke my rule. Luckily it was a whim bid and I got a really good deal in the end that should have been a better deal. If the item was in the hundreds of dollars, I would not have bid. My trust level is pretty low by now.
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Posted 02/23/2022   3:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
SPQR - It is just such a convoluted load of manure.
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Posted 02/23/2022   5:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add m and m to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
due to various issues over the years with them, I will no longer bid there sales.
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Posted 02/23/2022   7:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cjpalermo1964 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I got burned in January in the same manner but the total was $450. Worse yet, when the lot arrived, the prior owner had laminated several of the stamps so I had to carefully cut them free of the laminations, and there were multiple undisclosed faults. I will no longer use their weekly sales, and I don't do "mail bid auctions" any longer for the same reason. If you enter a max bid, you inevitably win at that bid rather than the first increment above the next lower bid. I will only live bid on SAN with Kelleher. Not sure what to do after April when SAN switches to paid subscribers.
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Posted 02/23/2022   8:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Inkmanno1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here's my take on the Kelleher weekly sales. I wait till closing and bid what I want to pay and nothing "extra". Similar to eBay w/o sniping software. Nothing extra means I never enter a high bid just because I really want it, in hopes I get it cheaper. If my bid goes red immediately on SAN then Oh well, there will be more in the future. Usually works out pretty good. The normal win some, lose some scenario but I also don't get caught winning at 50% of cat because someone else also did the same.

To be completely honest, i've never had good luck or a good feeling with these types of auctions at firms other than Kelleher. Mail bid, book bid etc being tallied in after the online bids close.

Who even mails/calls in bids anymore these days to a not live auction? Seems archaic..
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Posted 02/23/2022   10:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
At one time not long ago, you could change your bid lower on line in the weekly mail sales. Don't know if that altered lately.

But yes, the mail sale rules are different than the public auction rules. It is worth one's time to give them a read if you are going to bid.



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Posted 02/24/2022   12:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In the end, you did bid $50. Otherwise, what Inkmanno1 said.

If this were a live auction, generally the rule is in case of tie, the earlier bidder gets. Does green really mean you won it or were just high bidder at closing time? Does the system always resolve ties immediately? On eBay I can be high bidder at closing, but if someone has put in the equivalent of a buy bid, it won't tell me I've lost until somewhat later when it definitively says I've lost.

The use of snail mail and telephone are still a major bidding method since there still many geezers out there who have been doing it that way since the pyramids were built. A lot of them are in the same group that squawk about not getting printed auction catalogs.
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Posted 02/24/2022   01:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I bid in the Kelleher Sunday weekly auctions ,I just don't like waiting from Sunday until Wednesday of this week to find out I won a lot . I don't understand why SAN and Kelleher can't let you know within 10 mins of the close if you won the lot or post prices quicker .
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Posted 02/24/2022   11:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Wshuwahere77 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I also bid on the kelleher weekly's. I wait till Sunday to bid and if it's over my limit, I let it go. I did notice they seem to autopay those. Meaning they just charged me and sent the lot. Saved me time, not complaining.
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Posted 02/24/2022   11:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Wshuwahere77 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
And I finally reached 50 posts
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