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Jamaican Philatelic Mystery

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Posted 06/15/2022   04:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add StampGuy64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello all,

The differences in shades of colour, per value, among the stamps of Great Britain, and its commonwealth, can seem quite subtle at times, from my own experience. I think that I have these identified correctly, but I'm not certain...



Alan
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Australia
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Posted 06/15/2022   06:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
They look identical to me, on my screen.

Lovely design, uncomplicated.
Members may wish to advise me, why the Laurel wreath head dress / Tiara

Since antiquity, the circular or horseshoe shape of the wreath has been a symbol of glory, power, and eternity.

Origin: Apollo's love for Daphne, whom spurned him, and turned herself into a Laurel Tree to escape.
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Edited by rod222 - 06/15/2022 07:08 am
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Posted 06/15/2022   07:41 am  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Disappointing - I thought it was for victory in the Mothers' Egg-and-Spoon at the Osborne House games.

The third stamp has a different tinge to me, but differentiating shades makes my eyes pop out.
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Posted 06/15/2022   08:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Gibbons catalog is based on shades and is a better basis for shades. They used shades to define printings (mostly). It lists, as #22 and 22a, red-orange and red-brown (shades), with first printings of 1883 and 1885 respectively. You have shades of red-brown here, I'm pretty sure. When SG mentions shades, it often means there is a wide range of shades; a range of very minor shades are always possible.

SG further notes that #22 is the same color/colour as SG#11a, the red-orange CC watermark stamp also first issued in 1883. Don't have an example of that in hand, but that one has a lot of red, a rather dull color but having no brown in it. Meanwhile, SG#11 is a quite different dull orange with some brown; SG calls this brown-orange.

If you're trying to split hairs otherwise, the color differences have to be really major. Therefore, you can't really rely on used stamps for shades in many cases; there's much more potential fading/changes possible with used stamps, particularly used from places with tropical climates.
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Posted 06/15/2022   08:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add itma to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Stamp 2 is definitely lighter then 1 and 3. I think 3 is slightly darker than 1. Would it be possible to see stamps 1 and 3 side by side?
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Posted 06/15/2022   08:46 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The third stamp has a different tinge to me,


Cancellations, depending on their depth of colour, will always alter the
conceived stamp colour shade, has them appear darker.
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Posted 06/15/2022   09:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KGVIStamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It is more difficult to determine the color of used stamps, but it is still possible. I think the three stamps you show are all the Red-Brown shade which Gibbons does indicate comes in "shades".

Shown below are two of the Red-Orange (on top) and two of the Red-Brown (bottom) shades from my inventory at ClassicBritishColonies.com.

It is my opinion that catalogs list the first color of a stamp and then if there is one that is significantly different that is listed also. So there should be a significant difference in the colors, not a subtle one.

You should also look at the cancellation date. Gibbons list SG 22 with a first use of 3/9/1883, and SG 22b is listed as 1885. So typically speaking, stamps cancelled after 1885 are more likely to be SG 22b. Obviously there can be exceptions, but it is still worth considering. Gibbons puts them in order of date of first use, while Scott seems to arrange them by price.

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Learn more about King George VI stamps at www.KGVIStamps.com
Edited by KGVIStamps - 06/15/2022 10:05 am
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Posted 06/15/2022   09:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Wilding mad to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi StampGuy64,
Have you tried looking at these stamps under long wave ultraviolet, as sometimes a marked difference can be seen with what is barely noticeable under normal light.

Possibly worth a try. WM.
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Posted 06/15/2022   10:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Germania to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The 3 shades appear to be almost identical but one can see differences. The question is, is it significant? One way forward is to measure the RGB components. Since there are so many variables in scanner and monitor settings all you can really do is a relative comparison. Assuming all 3 stamps were scanned together one can do a simplified analysis. I measured the same spot on all 3 stamps (the center of the "G" of POSTAGE). The RGB measurements are shown above each stamp. Are the differences significant? To me, no. But it would be interesting to scan 100 of these stamps, measure them all and then plot them on a graph. Ideally, several spots on each stamp should be measured. If distinct groups of points show up then it is likely they are different shades. If just a large amorphous blob then maybe not.
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Posted 06/16/2022   07:29 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StampGuy64 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Please pardon my delay in replying.

See if this camera, rather than a scanner, image is more helpful...

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Posted 06/16/2022   4:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StampGuy64 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It is most curious that Scott indicates red-brown(#22), and orange-brown(22a), for this issue. Stanley Gibbons, however, and the authority on these, indicates red-orange(SG #22), and red-brown(shades, SG #22a), rather. Is not an orange-brown a member of the red-brown(shades)? Yet Scott designates it as the "key" shade, and exponentially greater in value over a red-brown; US$24 versus 40, in 2009.

Stanley Gibbons states further that SG #22, red-orange, is the same colour as SG #11a(red-orange); these two for example, albeit faded...



That's the colour of orange sherbet, and if mint, cherry-orange, a deeper "Padparascha" sapphire even; no brown whatsoever...



How in the name of Joseph O. Barnard can Scott possibly, utterly, apparently, ignore the existence of the red-orange variant, and instead elevate a shade of the red-brown(shades) category? What, or were they looking upon used, soiled, gum-laden red-orange specimens at the time?

Yes, the design is lovely, reminding of an illuminated marquee at a carnival, and there at a vendor's stand your cherry-orange ice is waiting.

My apologies, but no, I do not have an ultraviolet light source.
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Edited by StampGuy64 - 06/16/2022 5:03 pm
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Posted 06/16/2022   5:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StampGuy64 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here's another subtlety among shades. This issue, too, gave me fits...



True, they're not as pretty as Grandmama's.
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Posted 06/16/2022   5:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StampGuy64 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I do have another of these 4d issues on its way. I saw no brown within the seller's image, and I will post an image of it once it arrives, along with this motley lot to compare. It sports a CDS, instead of an older alpha-numerical hand-stamping. We'll see. "Please don't let it be yet another 11a/10a!"

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Posted 06/16/2022   7:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StampGuy64 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
To add to a previous comment, Victoria's crown sported on these early Jamaican issues is comprised of laurel leaves, very much like that worn by Augustus, a caesar, and instead of the much more common nautical type, as Neptune would don. This uniqueness, in my opinion, makes the Jamaican issues the most desirable, and attractive, of the Caribbean issues, and perhaps of those elsewhere...



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Posted 06/16/2022   7:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Given that the inks of these early stamps were mixed by hand in oft-times poorly lit and varying light conditions using raw materials that themselves lacked todays tightly controlled production specifications why are catalogs and collectors still trying to split the proverbial color hairs. Tilting at windmills in the truest sense.
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Posted 06/16/2022   8:28 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Catalog editors who call out colors/hues as varieties ought to be taken behind the woodshed and hit upside the head with a big, wet trout. As long as they are using subjective criteria, why not list gum varieties by taste?

Then, to top it off, we add additional levels of technology on top of the subjective sensory color perception we each have??? Yes, there is a bit of value in being able to make a distinction between stamps when they are scanned together. But beyond that, the images above appear as different colors/hues on every display.

Then, if this is not enough, we are looking at used stamps which by definition have been subjected to soaking and Lord Knows What other environmental conditions. Yikes. Who here can say with a high degree of confidence that the ink color we are looking at today is anywhere close to the original color? Or that two stamps from the same sheet will look the same today even if they have seen different environmental conditions over the last 100 years?
Don
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