Just Passing Along A Warning & Curious What Your Opinion Is?

I occasionally look at lots offered at auctions via Stamp Auction Network. I came across a lot offered by Earl P.L. Apfelbaum Inc and it clearly shows large photos indicating scott 519 & 595 in mint condition with no notes of greater detail. In the "scans" and description of the lot neither stamp is mentioned. I had sent two emails directly to them asking if in fact they check stamps for accuracy considering these two stamps have a fairly high catalog value without a response.
I decided to call today and asked that exact question and was told that unless a stamp and condition is specifically mentioned, I should consider it is NOT those stamps and not to purchase the lot based on those stamps being accurate.
I then mentioned that they advertise the following: Apfelbaum's complete, full, instant, no-questions-asked, money-back guarantee of satisfaction applies. If any item does not live up to your expectations for any reason return it for a full, instant refund. And Apfelbaum's unconditional lifetime guarantee of genuineness also applies. We don't think you'll find better prices or an easier company to deal with anywhere." and told her I would make the purchase and if those stamps were not genuine, I would return it per the guarantee and the response was DON"T buy the lot because they don't want it back and the guarantee only covers "if not as described"

I just thought others should be aware as I find this a very deceptive way of doing business and wanted to pass it along and warn others before they invest 2K on a large collection that isn't what it is shown to be. If these stamps are not what they appear, they should not have photos which have the Scott# identification and it should certainly be stated in the description that those specific stamps are not genuine.

What's your opinion?

* I have reconsidered my earlier posting where I omitted the companies name and decided to edit and have added that information. I'm disappointed that the firm would actually tell me that unless a stamp illustrated by photo is verbally mentioned in the description, I should not consider it in deciding to purchase a lot. It's outright deception IMO.

Is this a large lot, a collection perhaps? I have dealt in the past with large online dealers ( ebay only) that simply scan the album(s) for auction, occasionally with close ups, and the albums frequently have catalog numbers written or typed in. Generally, for collections, I never assume the items were actually checked by the seller.

Its worth warning folks about and I don't condone the activity. The description should at least say the album notations were not confirmed.

This was a large "collection" offered by a large dealer through a public internet auction and not on ebay. My big issue is if there are stamps in question, they should not be photographed. Also, if a total catalog value is provided, how accurate can it be if two stamps with a catalog value near $1000.00 which are not correctly identified and really boosts the cat value in determining what a bidder should offer is total deception. The greater issue I have is I was expressly told the companies "guarantee" is "if not as described" and since the description did not specifically list those two stamps, they wouldn't honor their own "no questions asked" guarantee....that just infuriated me. I was expressly told not to bid and they would not sell it to me. I should also point out this is a "BIN" offering. I would never do business with them.

If one follows this rule and bids/buys accordingly, there shouldn't be many issues. I pass up stamps all the time that aren't pictured/described/ID'd well enough to my liking.

I do wish every seller would include good descriptions or notes, but many of them decide to put that burden on the buyer, knowing full well it may result in a lower realization. They must have gotten that material for a good enough price where they figure they'll still come out ahead even if bidding is depressed. A busy dealer has to figure out how to best allocate his time, and many probably figure that the hours it may take to thoroughly check everything won't provide that great of a return. If the dealer's NOT busy, well, then I suppose it's just a matter of laziness or bad ethics.

In my opinion it is a matter of greed. Just yesterday I received a communication from a ebay seller with the following response to a listing with an obvious forgery that called out a specific catalog number. "Of course it is a forgery. If it were real, I would not be starting bidding at .99. All buyers know this."

If it were common knowledge, then why not mention this in the listing? (answer is obvious) We are not even immune to this with our fellow SCF posters. We have one fellow who frequently offers his opinion on things like reperfs and regums yet his own listings fail to mention them. Some are so obvious as to be comical.

I guess as long as there is money to be made there will be 'puffery' and 'lies of omission'. For various reasons some folks seem to be willing to either look the other way or feel good that they are experienced enough to side step these kinds of sellers. Generally speaking, this is not healthy for our hobby.
Don

There's only one major company that "offers" that specific guarantee but doesn't always live up to the wording of the guarantee. The same applies to their lot descriptions. What they say is not always what you get. And to think they've been doing this for generations.

If a company cannot honor their written guarantee, then how trustworthy are their lot descriptions?

However, unless you are an established repeat customer, it is not unusual for dealers to have a policy of not accepting returns on large lots/collections unless it is "not as described". But the dealers I know that have that policy state so pretty clearly in their terms. I rarely return lots (<1%), and the dealers I have purchased from have always (without exception) accepted the returns, even if their written policy has restricted returns to "not as described".

Agreed. The dealers I buy from may list the questionable items, maybe even provide a potential catalog value of the items if genuine, but will state that they are NOT included in the total/estimated catalog value of the lot.

Although I see nothing wrong with providing a photograph.

A photograph of a stamp, with a catalog number adjacent, IS part of the description. The pictured stamp has been "described" merely by stating the alleged catalog number next to the picture.

So, they are playing with fire. Sooner or later a buyer will rely on the images and number as description, bid high, seek certificates, be disappointed, and enforce the guarantee the old fashioned way, perhaps the only way this seller will understand -- civil litigation.

cjpalermo1964, I agree with you 100%. It's outright deception!

Why you are not naming names is totally mystifying.

There is a very similar thread elsewhere on SCF right now where names have been named and the end result was good.

Don't be afraid. Write to them and tell them they are being discussed on Internet forums.....you will get a result.

I was bust doing philately, so cjpalermo1964 got there first but, yeah, since when is a picture not a description?

Answer: when the picture, in turn, is itself described as 'illustrative'.

But a picture of a stamp, with a catalog number next to it, goes way beyond 'illustrative', and all the way to 'declarative'.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

I tried their mail bid sales about 25 years ago and had to return a lot of faulty material. After a few months they banned me from bidding. I called and spoke with Missy and told her I only return faulty material and shouldn't be banned from bidding.

She said, "so why would you want to buy from a company that you feel is selling you bad stamps?" Evidently things haven't changed much since then aside from a sensational shilling scandal and a felonious family member working in the business.

I guess for some companies, and over generations, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree... Unfortunately, companies like this do continue to do business, and we don't know until we have been burned. I also have been burned by a company like this one (and perhaps it is this one) years ago, and never went back. It made me not generally trust auction houses or dealers until I sampled their lots/material to acquire that trust. Most auction houses and dealers I have bought from have been generally great and honest, but one has to be aware that you can't assume from the start.

TheStampNut, thanks for providing the name of the company. We are well and truly forewarned now.

I agree with the above posts that an image with a Scott number is a description. That's one reason for bidding on a site that protects buyers. If this were an ebay auction, you'd easily win a case that the lot was not as described.

Well done, TheStampNut !

That's the way to go.

I was banned from this same company for returning Chinese fakes & forgeries that were identified by the China society. The BIN/internet part of this companies material is loaded,rife with bogus items. I now realize this is to be assumed (fakes) when purchasing and is the outlet for this type of material. Some for "study" and much for fraudulent sales elsewhere such as ebay,etc.