Fleetwood Sellers/Dealers Organizations

Hi, does anyone know of a seller or dealer who sells mainly in this field or who has extensive knowledge in Fleetwood covers.
I have emailed many organizations and have come up with nothing which is a shame
So I am hoping that someone in here may have a idea or good seller of such things and there must be someone who knows a bit about this subject somewhere

Some information here, Tigger.
https://goscf.com/t/20933

Hi Rod, Yep been there and done that, I also had to laugh at the comments left and am glad I don't listen to much to some people, as whilst the replies are valid, they are not strictly true on ALL collections!
I really would love to get a hold of an American who deals with these covers on a professional basis and has knowledge of the company that was Fleetwoods. Such a shame a piece of history is killed by commercialism. Such a shame also that there is stuff floating around America which makes that post so laughable.

Hi Tigger.

I am a bit confused by your postings, especially your negative perception of that earlier thread which seems to be fairly spot on. I was not a contributor to that post so I am speaking as a third party about it.

There several US dealers in Fleetwood FDCs. Here is an example of one as a response to your request for a dealer who sells them: http://www.firstdaycoversonline.com...t-day-covers I am in no way connected with this dealer. The prices he charges reflect not only the cost he would have paid, but also his business costs of tying up his capital in his stock, paying himself a living wage and benefits, paying any staff living wages and benefits, paying for advertising and maintaining his website, paying for insurance on his stock, and an additional profit to reinvest in the growth of his company. In other words the prices he would have to pay for new stock would be small fractions of what he sells them for.

If you are asking for the name of someone who can tell you more about the history of Fleetwood and how they made their cachets and FDCs then I think you best option would be to join the American First Day Cover Society at http://www.afdcs.org

Hi Kimo, I am sorry you feel my reply to a thread was negative but in my circumstance of theme, MY reply is valid. There seems to be a very big mis conception in these forums about first day covers and their values. Whilst a cover may only have a value as Americans accept them to be, each cover carries a stamp and that stamp can be very important, especially to ones collection?!
So if you are just collecting FDC's as a standard collection the responders thoughts / comments are indeed valid but this shows little about their knowledge to stamps and what and where they come from. I cannot respond on all Fleetwood collections because I collect on a theme which is how these sets are made up. And my post you call negative actually states I find their comments as valid, so I am sorry if you read my words wrongly or find them negative!
I do thank you Kimo for both your links and I have already been through those and drawn a blank, TO my particular theme. I have not joined the afdcs but have emailed them and their response is, as I have found, empty because we both come back to the Mystic stamp comp. And I already have their response!
It is on this fact and I can only speak on my theme of collecting which I would argue very strongly against the response of the thread you feel I am negative about but then I am sorry to say Kimo, on this one collection I can tell you if someone was to offer me certain FDC's for a buck a piece I would snap their hands off quick enough to get them but you see this is because of the stamp and not the FDC itself.
And if I were to tell you I have seen covers command over the above price of which they were sold originally which is about $6 a piece and I have bid in excess of $10 and lost them, I hope this clarify's my point and I do stress this is not so much the Cover but the STAMP.
AND I can also say, I bet there are quite a few other collections which Fleetwoods sold that have the same issue. And this all comes about because of the attitude of companies selling First Day Covers on a novelty scale, than a stamp collectors and how they are distributed.
I can also tell you this applies to the PCS collections too?!
I hope you have found this reply to be informative rather than negative.

Hi Tigger. Thanks for your thoughts. My perspective comes from spending a fair amount of time reviewing Ebay-US listings where the items actually sold. You can filter for these by clicking the appropriate button on the advanced search page when searching on Fleetwood and FDC. The typical prices at which Fleetwood FDCs have actually sold seem to run in the range of US$ 0.35 up to around US$ 2.50 with a few going for less and a few for a bit more.

In looking at just a couple hundred of the most recent actual sales that occurred in the past week or so on the US ebay site, here is a link to a very recent auction that sold a small group of 12 Fleetwood cacheted United Nations covers from the 1970s for US$ 3.99 which is 32.5 cents each http://www.ebay.com/itm/fleetwood-f...AOSwFqJWsSBd or here is an auction that sold a set of 8 Fleetwood cacheted covers from 1979 for US$ 1.00 which would be 12.5 cents each http://www.ebay.com/itm/eight-1979-...AOSw8w1X8Q7E or on the higher price end here is an auction that sold a set of 5 US space stamps from 1992 for US$ 9.88 which is almost US$ 2.00 each. http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-FDC-1993...047675.l2557 There are occasional auctions where a Fleetwood cacheted FDC may for a bit more, but the large majority are in the 35 cents to 2.5 dollar range.

Perhaps if you could be more specific of what you have in mind that might help us understand better what you are seeking and perhaps allow us to be more responsive.

Hi Kimo, glad you did not find my reply to bad then. I also again thank you for taking the time to post and even look on the internet to provide information to give me an answer. My own interest is of the Fleetwood Princess Diana collection produced after her death in 1997. I believe the set was called The world Remembers The Princess of Wales and came out in 1998 but maybe have started to be sold soon after her death in 97. As has been said, these companies just wanted to make novelty sets for money and little regard was put to the compiling of a set.
The one question I wanted answering which is important to me, is how many countries constituted a set. I cant remember off hand how many I have but I believe its 59 countries. So the first thing I need to know is, have I got a complete set just in countries alone before I even think about stamps?
At the moment I am just collecting as and when I see them on ebay. So specifically my question is that, who many countries constituted a set and I don't think I can be far off with my own total of 59. If there is more than 59 I then have to ask which countries were used in name.
So I have two ways forward and that is finding someone who knows about the Fleetwood collections as an area of a whole or indeed finding someone who has a complete set which has the documentation to say it is complete. We all know these sets were made up of monthly issues of say four fdcs a time at a price of approximately $6 a FDC. As the comment was made in the thread you felt I was negative about MOST sets these days sell at a fraction of their original selling price. HOWEVER there is a BUT and this depends on a few things and its these components which make some sets worth MORE than they were sold originally and this is due to the way these companies produced the sets. I also have to say even still today probably and this all comes down to what someones perception of a collection really means?!
Thanks again Kimo but if you ever come across someone or see selling a set of these on Diana please shout it to me in a thread. I am aways ever hopeful someone will come along with the answer.

Many collectors have distain for mass produced commercial FDCs like Fleetwood. They were marketed as 'investments' and many people purchased them thinking they would gain in value. (I have heard it said that is something is sold as a 'collectible' it generally is not a collectible.)
I have a number of handwritten letters kicking around where people bought into Fleetwood subscriptions but years later wrote nasty letters to the company bitterly complaining that they found them to be worth very little. A few of the letters quoted the original marketing spin and offer to sell them back their product at a fraction of the original cost.

So it may be that the original setting of the investment expectation that is negatively influencing collectors today.

That said, obviously there may be some covers which will demand more. I am unaware of any published work which defines quantities produced for each issue and it's varieties. I wonder if Mystic received these records when they purchased Fleetwood?
Don

Thanks for the clarification, Tigger. I do not know how many there were, but given Fleetwood's proclivity to make a FDC for every possible case in order to optimize their profits my guess is that the number would likely be the number of countries that issued Diana tribute stamps those years. I do not know that number, but you might find it in a reference book like the Stanley Gibbons catalog of Diana stamps: http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Diana-Prince...AOxyyjpRu6Bv or perhaps some similar reference book of current and former British Commonwealth countries that would likely have issued stamps then.

Hi redwwodrandy yes that was my original thread in here and you was going to contact Mystic Stamp Company and you never gave a response?
So what is your point?!!

You were given the answer by Mystic. I received the same answer and then instead of mentioning old news I moved on and I suggested the AFDCS. You are now appealing for information again on a subject already discussed so instead of the same old rehash I am supplying the old thread as to not start repeating any dead ends.

That is the point!

Hi again Kimo,
The Postal Commemorative Society issued 107 fdc's and I know that Fleetwoods was not as many as that. I have purchased many part sets on ebay and from my experience full sets are rare. Unlike the PCS sets which are common as mud and you see them sell for cents a cover.
But If I saw a full set with paperwork I would find it hard to resist not bidding for it, just for the paper work alone considering everything I have been through into trying to find out info about it.
You see, with Mystic Stamp Company and their attitude to buying Fleetwoods and having no regard for the history of the company, thus makes paperwork on this one subject valuable? This is the whole ethos of being a collector, what appeals to me may not appeal to others.
I as a person find it sad that history is just forgotten even if a company just produces sets of fdc's for profit. As any antique dealer will tell you, the history of an item and if backed up with paperwork is worth more than an item that is not. People who disregard fdcs as stamp worthy in collecting terms need to understand, if it was not for an envelope and a stamp, fdcs would not exist in the first place. Just because an envelope and a stamp is not considered an fdc it is the same thing. I have been reading a few of your posts on other threads Kimo and you sound like a very interesting person, I commend you for your helping others, truly worthy.
I also add if a company who buys another does not care about the history, then it is only collectors who will care. As years slip by the more valuable this information becomes because no one cared in the first place!
I actually collect Princess Diana stamps not for their worth but the different varieties of pictures on stamps. Russian stamps have a really good selection but again these are really hard to come by. And postal services still today keep issuing Diana stamps sheets in memoriam and Birthday issues, just as Elvis and Marilyn Monroe. Benhams an FDC producer here, still make collections of her in this way.
The really cheeky thing is now, with Prince William getting married and having 2 children, Diana is still being used to promote him as well! Usually with one stamp of a set in a sheet, having her included within it? I just wonder how popular these stamps would be if they did not have a stamp of Diana within them?
The really sad thing for me to find out about collecting stamps, is the fact now of Cinderella's and that these people also cash in on this production. As I read on one thread about this subject, you can now wallpaper a house on the amount of this material thats out there.
Its a funny world.

There are companies that have been created to manufacture instant collectibles - both in stamps and in coins and in many other things. For example, the famous Martin acoustic guitar company cranks out many "tribute" issue acoustic guitars honoring every famous musician you can think of - putting out several new ones every year - and charges premiums for them. Trying to collect one of every Martin guitar these days would take a person of near limitless financial resources. Writing pen companies are doing the same coming up with all kinds of fanciful fountain pens and roller ball pens and such with decorations on them honoring whatever or whomever they think will get collectors to buy them. Montblanc is an egregious example of this. You see it in so many things these days that it is a bit silly. Look at Canada and what they did for the television show Star Trek. I do not recall the exact amount, but for a collector to buy just one of every kind of Canada Post's recent Star Trek issue would cost many hundreds of dollars. It brings in the cash.

Manufacturing first day covers is yet another example of private enterprise at work - it is not just Fleetwood, but as you say there are FDC making enterprises all over including the ones in your own country. On the one hand this is great for collectors as they have so many different and often very attractive covers to seek out and put in their collections, but on the other hand it is somewhat out of control with these same companies, including the way Fleetwood was when they were in business, just cranking them out in huge numbers to make their profits. Personally, I think that either being creative and making your own FDCs, or perhaps finding an artist with some actual artistic ability who hand draws and paints cachets on small numbers of FDCs is the most fun way to collect FDCs. But the great thing is that there are so many options that everyone who in interested in FDCs can find a way to collect that makes them happy and that is the whole point of collecting.

HI Kimo, thanks once again for replying. When we actually think about fdc or any produce cover the underlying thing is, it is still the stamp which makes it. Covers are usually themed off the stamp. The thing is because these companies are not stamp collectors they always can produce oddities.
In the Postal Comm Society set, there are many. I give you an example, the country Romania was numbered on the back and the actual cancel mark was two colours, one black and the other brick red or brown. Now whether this was the print getting faded through lack of ink or something like that or whether it was a print run who knows. Another example which has nothing to do with the covers was some sets with the 5 Great Britain covers, some of the mount pages where actually numbered. These companies have no idea what they are doing, solely because they are not stamp collectors!
But I enjoyed reading your post and everything you say is true. I saw one of Ikeys threads about hand made covers, and they are more interesting in as much as they are works of art. The other thing about covers as well, they produce of course special cancels marks? I also read your fantastic reply on the flight covers, never knew that happened either but what a great thing. I thought to myself the ones you say escaped the route and stamp mark actually makes them more attractive depending which way you look at it. I do like reading the threads in here because so much is opened up to the novice collector on the whole swathe of differences there are to stamps be it fdc, covers, or cancel marks.
The other thing of course its not just these companies making money out of it but the national post system which produce sets of themed stamp sets and people are moaning here how much they are rising over the years in cost. Also the stamps themselves to make a set are more pricey as well.
Your also right about the use of Comms coins and even how they have managed to be put into covers as well, the whole thing as you say does taint the whole production of covers. I got a collection of Benhams here where the wrong stamp was put on the wrong cover, what a find!! Now some people would think that's yuk but I think its a gem solely because it is a mistake. The chances of that happening a number of times I would think is minimal. But you know the funny thing is, when you stop and think about any collecting, no matter what it is, we are funny creatures making a thing about any of it because in reality its all meaningless. Its just creation in form, so you could say the same about me and you, we were both created thus we must be collectable????? Who much do you reckon your worth???? From what I seen of your posta / threads, you got to be expensive!!

Thanks, Tigger. Let me comment on one of your points - that being that FDC cover companies, and other companies that make instant collectibles whether they are in stamps and covers or anything else are pretty savvy about what collectors want and will pay for. They know very well that making varieties of various kinds including different color cachets and cancels, making "errors" and so on will drive up their sales and for the most part these was made deliberately just to increase those sales and the hype to get collectors to seek out and buy such "errors". This began way back in time when there were some legitimate errors in production of government produced stamps. One of the best known ones is the inverted Jenny US airmail stamp where the aircraft design in the center was accidentally printed upside down relative to the framework around it. Ever since there have been collectors of "errors" and philatelic companies and sometimes even governments themselves take advantage of this and produce "errors" to increase their profits. I am not saying this is good or bad as there are collectors who like such varieties and collect them which is good because it is fun for them. Some other collectors see this as bad since most of these are contrivances to pocket higher profits by those who make them. My motto is to collect what you like and do not worry about whether you will ever get your money back out of your collection as in most cases a collector will not. The thrill of the hunt for something you want, the fulfillment of learning something new whether about the subject of the stamp or the process by which it was made, and the personal satisfaction of adding to or completing a collection is the reward and the reason. If anything, not being able to complete a collection is a better result for me since once a collection is complete then there is little to do other than to find a new collecting interest and start a second or third or twentieth collection of something else.