Do People Toss Bad Certifications?

Your opinion about "unused" stamps might work for you, but the catalog listings of the classic issues proves that there is a considerable body of collectors that does not think as you do. In fact it is probably a very small number that does. So the only person that really affects is you. The hobby at large will still consider them "unused".

Some things here that I don't necessarily agree with. One) the thrust of the entire thread seems to be towards classic US. What if one doesn't actively collect classic US, but has other interests? The thread to a degree then becomes less than relevant. Two) 64 wrote: "don't forget all major dealers will provide lifetime guarantees....." I've seen a few here in the US who do provide a guarantee of sorts, but it really depends upon the material. Earlier this year, I bought a copy of one of the early Cabo Verde stamps overprinted small Guine for Portuguese Guinea. Submitted it and yes, the overprint was forged. Got my money back, but wonder if the persons purchasing three other copies of that first issue set sent off for certs?

Three) "folks buy certs to get an objective opinion, usually a form of validation of their own opinion......" Maybe. I can do a half-way job of determining; again in the Portuguese area; if early Portugal stamps overprinted for Azores or Madeira have genuine overprints, as I have some reference guides. But much better to rely on someone who has a four drawer file cabinet full of reference materials.

They are competitors

But you don't have the same advanced equipment the expertizers have.

Or likely expertise (no offense intended).

I do not think it is right to ignore expert opinions you do not want to hear. If you are trying to sell something, you should disclose both and really try to understand why they reached differing opinions. I would like to think the buyer will either decide for on their own or seek a 3rd opinion. It is actually a teaching moment but I realize to some a sale is a sale/

Angore,

Finally someone brought this thread back full circle. The OP asked if throwing away certs is a general practice. One thing I learned here is that if you have 2 certs with different opinions, the value of your stamp generally matches the lower value cert (sometimes even lower)... customers don't like uncertainty ! I'm not sure a 3rd opinion would help unless you are willing to chuck the cert that is in the minority. . In example above if APS certifies as unused and now you got 2 certs saying unused and one saying used, unless you throw away the cancel removed/used cert from PSE, your stamp will always be tainted and sell for relatively little!? This is an ethical dilemma for stamp owners with conflicting certs.

Eye... are you saying that PF missed the cancel with the VCwhatever you call it and the other light sources... does PSE have better equipment???

Are you guys saying PF expertizer and PSE expertizer are that cutthroat that they can't ask each other for opinions??? Really?? Is it that bad out there competing for this stuff? Don't they all go out to the bar after work and discuss interesting cases. We are talking about stamps. Lawyers and doctors discuss this stuff all the time at conferences and dinner meetings etc.

Al: ".....Im not sure a 3rd opinion would help.........." I'm in that position right now. I have a British East Africa (yes, another specialty interest of mine) Victoria rupee high value that is cancelled. I tried to sell it, with a Rendon cert that said the cancel was genuine. The auction house sent it to the R.P.S. and got a cert saying the cancel was forged. They sent the new cert and stamp back to me, but minus the Rendon cert. I filed the stamp & cert for future reference as I'm not working on my BEA/KUT collection right now. But I'm thinking of "breaking the tie" by sending it to the APS early in the new year to see what their reviewers think. Regardless, I'll keep it as the underlying stamp; which would be unused (but with forged cancel); has some value.

Along the same line, I have certs on a couple of early Madeira saying that the overprint is forged. For me, those eventually will go into my Portugal pages with a note: "genuine stamp, forged overprint."

rgstamp: "are you guys saying PF expertizer and PSE expertizer are that cutthroat........" I speak only for me, but those individuals may not necessarily know each others' identities. Also, PSE is somewhat tainted in the eyes of some philatelists as they are the outfit that started the grading "craze" some years ago. I know I will never use PSE; or its offshoot; PSAG; for that reason. But then I'm also not doing anything with my US collection either and both do mostly US reviews.

Perhaps the governing body of philately (?aps in USA) should hold seminar/forum at. If shows once or twice a year and ask the expertizers to give a debate/discussion on stamps with conflicting certificates... would be great entertainment to see the experts battle it out on stage (ala pay per view main event stuff) and explain their conclusions. Would be great education for the collectors as well, and fun as well. Perhaps it would be motivation for me to actually attend a show!

RG - Great idea about a debate. I'd attend/pay to see that! Maybe pre-debate, give each a stamp to formulate an opinion to discuss. Probably not happen though ... putting reputations on stage may be bad business.

Canyon,

Surgeons and physicians do this all the time in front of hundreds or even thousands at local and national meetings. Maybe it's time!! Think outside the box... it's s hobby for most of these expertizers as well, although I'm sure done are doing this full time!

Rg

The experticing industry has changed very little over the years (if we disregard the technical evolution). Many people make a living from this. There is a lot of money in 'trust' & reputation - which at the end of the day - that's all there is to it.
...Which is why a public debate is likely never going to happen.

It's similar to other fields, for example martial arts. People (Grand Masters or whatever they call themselves) making a living from teaching rarely compete 'publicly'. Why? There is a lot of money in reputation...

Other than bill Weiss who I have some certificates from, I cannot name an expertizer at PF or PSE. If they are worried about their reputation, I will argue that presenting their expertuzing notes at a national or regional conference would only increase their reputation! This argument that there is too much on the line seems absurd.0

PF and PSE have branding issues and not likely want to risk tarnishing it by being proven wrong. Fair thinking people may accept but others never would.