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Pillar Of The Community
United States
911 Posts |
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
8434 Posts |
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DON ----I don't think none of us care about how `David Kols ran his business and how it was run into the ground . Our concern is that other stamp collectors both buyers and sellers recover what was taken away from them, for the good of the hobby. Many of us would also like answers how ASDA and the APS putting this guy at the forefront of the stamp community .
I am more concern about what David did when he knew he was going under ,like pay thousands of dollars to employees as termination bonus including his wife ,did he pay his buddies off first for their large consignments to his auctions and that leaving the many small customers with the resulting losses . |
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Pillar Of The Community
3859 Posts |
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The press release was posted to show that the company was not owned by just one person but by several others as well even though up until that point the impression given was that it was owned by just one person only. |
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| Edited by jogil - 06/18/2017 11:48 am |
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
8434 Posts |
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Jogil ---In the State of Illinois not sure of Missouri ,but a Corporation can have up to 30 stock holders before it has to register as a public owned corporation . |
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
10632 Posts |
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"My guess is the big consignors and APS members and his buddies got paid but the widows ,orphans and small collectors are sucking wind .......The ASDA and APS will keep quiet and let this die down"
Actually this is incorrect. I know of at least one "big consignor" who is out many thousands of dollars. He got his "unsolds" back, but never got paid on several that did. |
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Pillar Of The Community
790 Posts |
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It will be interesting to see what the ASDA does, if anything, to acknowledge this situation. My own experience with the ASDA tends to support the notion that they don't give a whit about collectors, they just exist to promote the dealers and put their imprimatur on anything in the dealer ranks that breathes. Maybe that's not surprising given their purpose in life, but one would think that, in this day and age when the future of organized philately is in question, that they would start to pay some attention to collectors and seek to maintain and enhance collectors' level of confidence in the integrity of the dealers it represents. After all, without collectors willing to put their trust in dealers, what's the future of the dealer community?
I started selectively buying some material in the Regency auctions a few years ago to get acquainted with the firm, but after a short while began to realize some strange things were going on. I saw the same items up for auction time after time with rather high starting prices. I then ended up having some unfortunate experiences. On the stamp side, I bought a fairly high valued item but wasn't prescient enough to send it out for a certificate right away. When I finally did, it came back with faults noted that were not in the auction description. No help from Regency - OK, my bad for waiting so long. On another lot of covers, the key item highlighted in the description was missing and it took a long time to get Regency to rectify the situation, with thinly veiled accusations from them that I was lying rather than their taking the time to search to see if it had mistakenly been left behind at the firm. After that I kept looking in their catalogs to see whether that item popped up again and sure enough, there it was in a later auction. Gee, where was it hiding all that time? Also on a nonphilatelic side, I bought an item that came with a COA. Knowing that COAs can be worth only the paper they're written on, I was still surprised when the item arrived with a COA that was laughable, without even a signature of anybody or even any statement of authenticity. The item was obviously fake. When I went back to Regency, they refused to honor a refund and said, in effect, we noted that a COA exists, we didn't say that either it or the item was worth anything. Yes, it's buyer beware, but some customer service without the attitude would have been nice.
So I had given up on them until I saw that the ASDA put Kols in their hall of fame. I remember that my first reaction was that of surprise, but being naive and newly back to the hobby, I figured "what do I know, maybe I have the wrong impression based on just a handful of unfortunate incidents". I stilled stayed away from them and then all this hit the fan.
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Pillar Of The Community
3859 Posts |
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6433 Posts |
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From the ASDA website at http://www.americanstampdealer.com/....aspx?id=286Quote:
The ASDA Code of Conduct
Membership in the American Stamp Dealers Association is a privilege extended to those persons and organizations deemed worthy, and is not a right. Membership may be continued unless the Board of Directors determines that the conduct of a member has been such, that in the best interests of the ASDA, the member should be suspended or his or her membership terminated.
As a guide to all members this Code of Conduct has been duly adopted by the Board of Directors under the authority vested in it by the constitution and by-laws of the American Stamp Dealers Association.
1. I will support and be subject to the constitution and by-laws of the American Stamp Dealers Association and such amendments, resolutions and policies as may be established.
2. I will abide by all federal, state and local laws related to philatelic matters.
3. I will conduct myself so as to bring no discredit to the American Stamp Dealers Association, or to diminish the prestige of the membership therein.
4. I will neither buy nor sell philatelic items of which the ownership is in doubt and will promptly report to the proper law enforcement agencies information on suspected stolen material.
5. I will correct promptly any error I may make in any transaction.
6. I will assist in the prosecution of violations of law pertaining to philatelic matters, of which I have knowledge, and will report promptly to the proper law enforcement agencies any violations.
7. I will properly, carefully and honestly grade and describe all merchandise offered for sale by me and indicate any faults, defects, restorations or alterations that may exist, to include indication of canceled to order material.
8. I will immediately refund on any item sold by me where the description was either inaccurate or misleading if the return is made within a reasonable period of time.
9. I will publish and make available my terms of sale so that all clients have an opportunity to become familiar with them.
10. I will hold intact, pending written acceptance from the seller all merchandise sent to me for offer, and should the offer by unacceptable promptly and carefully to return it to its proper owner.
11. I will honor any buying prices that I have published within a reasonable period after their publication. Price lists will include a statement as to expiration of offer or give an actual expiration date and explain any limitations.
12. I will make prompt cash refund on all "out of stock" or returned merchandise.
13. I will advertise for sale only those items that are available to me at the time the advertisements are placed.
14. I will provide all consignors or merchandise with a contract stating my legal commitments.
15. I will pay for all material I purchase according to the terms of sale at the time of purchase.
16. I will not sell, produce, nor advertise counterfeit material in any form in violation of law.
17. I will never substitute or alter material submitted to me without the consent of the owner.
18. I will abide by the "terms of sale" and will publish Prices Realized within a reasonable time after a public auction.
19. I will conduct myself according to accepted standards of morality and courtesy in all philatelic activities not specifically cited in this code.
20. Insofar as possible I will use the ASDA logo in my advertising.
21. If I should be found guilty of unethical or unlawful conduct, the record thereof may be disclosed to other philatelic societies of which I am a member.
22. I will submit any dispute, controversy or claim concerning philatelic transactions in which I may become involved to arbitrators mutually agreed upon by the parties. The decision and award of the arbitrators will be binding on all parties and judgment upon the award rendered by the arbitrators may be entered in any court having jurisdiction thereof.
Approved and adopted by the ASDA Board of Directors 1992.
ASDA Pledge
A member shall be required to subscribe to the following pledge upon joining American Stamp Dealers Association, Inc.
"As a member of the American Stamp Dealers Association, Inc., I recognize my obligation to the public pledge:
1. To buy and sell at prices commensurate with a reasonable return on my investments and at prevailing market conditions.
2. To give advice to my clientele in philatelic matters to the best of my ability.
3. To refrain from dealing in stolen philatelic and counterfeit material, and to furnish buyers of repaired, regummed, reperforated, restored reprinted or otherwise altered philatelic material with a complete written statement showing in detail the nature of the changes and alterations in such material.
4. To purchase philatelic material from the public at reasonable prices, with due allowances for my risk and prevailing market conditions; to be truthful in my advertising; to refrain from denigrating my competitors; and to make no false claim to a policy or practice of generally underselling competitors." |
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Pillar Of The Community
3859 Posts |
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Valued Member
134 Posts |
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Having been involved with many companies, that I have supplied goods to that have gone bankrupt, sometimes for a few thousand dollars, or up to hundreds of thousands of dollars, as a consigned/supplier, there is not much hope of getting much back in return. As a business owner, with all bankruptcies, the first two creditors that must be satisfied, are any outstanding wages to employees, and any outstanding tax obligations to federal/state/ local governments. After that, then the banks, as a secured creditor is taken care of. Once these three obligations, are satisfied along with all related expenses involved, then unsecured creditors are taken care of. Depending what assests Regency owns. Being in the auction business, the only conceivable assests it could have, are the title to its building, inventory of stamps and memomorabilia, receivables for sold lots and cash in the bank. It may own some cars and office furniture, but this minor stuff. Other than that, there is not much else to a company like this. As for creditors getting anything out of it, you maybe get $0.20-0.30 on the dollar if you are lucky. I won't hold my breath getting anything at all. Just from personal experiences. |
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Pillar Of The Community
3859 Posts |
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Pillar Of The Community
790 Posts |
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With regard to my transactions with Regency-Superior before I wised up, they must have missed these elements of the ASDA Code of Conduct: 3. I will conduct myself so as to bring no discredit to the American Stamp Dealers Association, or to diminish the prestige of the membership therein.
7. I will properly, carefully and honestly grade and describe all merchandise offered for sale by me and indicate any faults, defects, restorations or alterations that may exist, to include indication of canceled to order material.
8. I will immediately refund on any item sold by me where the description was either inaccurate or misleading if the return is made within a reasonable period of time.The broader question is what do the ASDA and APS do, if anything, to monitor the compliance of dealers with their respective codes of conduct or other requirements that allow the dealers to show the logos of these organizations in their advertising? Obviously these societies don't have legions of auditors on staff to proactively check on their dealer members' activities. Presumably they rely, at least in part, on aggrieved customers to file complaints with them or become aware of problems through their own direct dealings with dealers. I will plead guilty to not having filed any such complaints, but I still wonder what their process is for measuring compliance. Are there any records available for either society re the number of complaints filed against or investigations conducted (along with outcomes and sanctions) w/r to particular dealers? In the end I guess I'm wondering whether having the endorsement of either the ASDA or APS is really worth anything nowadays. From the ASDA website: Buy & Sell with Confidence with any of our members
Find a dealer click here
Integrity - Honesty - Expertise - Dedication - Reliability - Hobby Builder BTW, I just went on the website of the ASDA and called up the list of the members of their Hall of Fame. David Kols name was not shown - has he been removed or did I just miss it? |
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| Edited by Oracle of Delphi - 06/19/2017 03:29 am |
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Pillar Of The Community
3859 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
285 Posts |
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Moderator
United States
12330 Posts |
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Hi Scott,
I know in the past I read something regarding APS insurance covering the APS Store and the Circuit (both of these are also consignment situations). But in going through the Store Terms and Conditions I cannot seem to locate this information. Can you expand upon how members are covered, up to what amounts, and if there are any conceivable situations where the a person using these APS services might have also have some risk or exposure?
Don
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Posted 06/18/2017 10:00 am
