Another Stamp Society Bites The Dust

This is gone on long enough ......time to start slapping people around .
First no answers are being offered .
The idea of a SEPERATE .....read that again .....SEPERATE section of club activity ,where people can start and develope a stamp club/group of like minded collectors . They can have a SEPERATE section and not deal with the "How much is this worth" and "Here is a picture of my dog next to my stamp album " crowd .

We will have a seperate section for those who want to be with like minded collectors and stay on subject and develope relationships of mutual philatelic interest . This will be a one stop source and not have to search all over the chat board divisions to find a discussion your interested in {for example your interest is Afghanistan you don't have to pull up 5 or 6 sections to find your club members having a discussion }.

The problem is the more experience and older collectors are being lost here on this chat board because there is the same old rif-raf questions and it gets boring to read year after year . The club section should attach those who want to get into more detail collecting without looking for piece meal postings at various other sections. People don't return because their time is limited and try to spend time on their area of special interest .

My guess is that clubs will form and bring NEW MEMBERS here . A section of 50 or 100 different clubs could give the board a big step as being in a leadership position and go to place in the future .

Without societies to produce quality specialized journals with scholarly articles, another venue would be needed for those. Those don't appear for "free".

This forum is not a complete replacement for a formal publication of vetted information.

Some consolidation of smaller societies under the umbrella of more successful, and related ones would appear to be the obvious solution here. No doubt that does result in less specialized content being published formally.

There is also the point of view of an author of an article on specialized material. Instead of submitting the article to a specialized society journal, this person would select another publication, or, possibly self-publish, with an online pdf, which is getting easier to do now, I suppose. Maybe this is where things will wind up more and more.

Physician, heal thyself.

The solution isn't more barriers. If questions are not being asked in appropriate places, then that is likely a folder organization/titling issue. If too many "generic" or "beginner" questions are funneling into areas that you feel should be reserved for specialized topics, then I would suggest you bring those up.

But putting member-only requirements on areas of the forum will not improve anything, in my opinion.

Also, regarding the notion of creating 50-100 "clubs", I believe the cure would be worse than the disease. Too many options/questions of where to make posts can become overwhelming, especially to the novice.

Lastly, upon what data are you basing the supposition that "the more experience and older collectors are being lost here on this chat board"?

Here is my opinion...

The current number of categories (or 'sub-forums') already causes problems and extra work. For various reasons, some intentional and others unintentional, folks struggle to start new threads in the best area.

An example of an unintentional reason is that many threads fit nicely in several different forum categories so deciding which one can be problematic.

An example of an intentional reason is that some people will start a thread in a category where they think it will get the most views, ignoring the category it really should be posted in.

No matter what, moving threads around is by far the most common task a forum moderator does, so adding more categories would definitely increase labor requirements.

Another issue with 'dividing up the pie into more pieces' is that certain categories would see a drastic drop off in posting frequency. In other words, a highly specialized category might only see 1-2 new posts per week. This means that some folks will stop checking the site as often and overall site traffic might decrease.

The primary objective for most forums (or websites) is to generate traffic, this (in one form or another) is what allows the bills to get paid. So best to keep justifications focused on this fact and demonstrate how any change(s) will generate more total traffic for the site. Any solution needs to grow the size of the pie, not just make more pie pieces.
Don

Putting all of the Afghanistan posts in one place sounds okay until you allow that Afghani postcards & Afghani postal stationery & Afghani slogan cancels & Afghani first flight covers & Afghani FDCs & & & might go better in non-geographical topical sub-forums.

In fact, I've proposed that the two postcard topics (US & WW) be merged, because ship cards are ship cards, hotels are hotels, etc, and the geographical distinction adds no value.

Important improvements to this site could include a better search engine (point to the post, not to the topic) and - I'm talking to you, guys & gals - better spelling & spell-checking.

To better intercept those annoying newbie riff-raff posts:

- a new What's It Worth topic, and

- a new What's This? topic, and

- a renamed My Inheritance! topic ...

... should all be at the very top of the forums list.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

Not a criticism, but an observation: I think if this forum had the ability to "pin" topics at the top of each folder (rules, FAQ, etc.) like other forums have, I think much of the unknown would be taken out of the equation for new folks.

Part of the problem is that without the ability to pin reference topics, people don't necessarily know WHERE to look for guidance on certain things.

Now admittedly, certain message boards take that to an extreme, like a certain stamp collecting forum that has 10-20 pinned topics at the top of each folder, which is just idiotic.

This forum supports pinned topics, we just don't do it much.
Don

Hi all,

The problem is the attitude of the folks within a group not the format of communication.

Yep, too many specialty groups and study groups seem to function for the benefit and self interests of the few seasoned members of the clan. More than a few times in my fifty plus years in our hobby I found a group sharing one of my interests eager to add my membership $$$ but that's about all. The more specialized and limited the area of interest of the group, the harder it is to "break in" among its inner circle. The one thing more damaging to a group than not being able to find new blood willing to take on a leadership roll is having old leadership not willing to develop its next generation of leaders.

Part of the problem is group members have years of knowledge and effort picking up the scarce stuff off of the market prior to newbies arriving today or tomorrow at its door step. I had to wait over thirty years for the collector who had accumulated most of the early Indiana material from my home counties to pass before I was fortunate to acquire most of his material - part of which was a direct arrangement. He was also very open to sharing knowledge and spending time with fellow collectors. He was a skilled practitioner of positive philately and a valued mentor. Does your group have such members today?

I'm not sure it's snobbery or cliquishness as much as birds of a feather, at the same level of experience. By analogy, if you're an avid golfer with a 5 handicap, when you show up at the public course with another 5-handicap mate you don't want to be paired up with a couple of beginners who, nice as they are, have a 25 handicap. All four of you may be perfectly affable, but the beginners just can't keep up, and "coaching" them is uncomfortable. You'd rather play with another pair of 5-handicappers--in the average round. Yes, you have an obligation to bring up the beginners--maybe on another day or in another setting like a clinic.

Same with stamp societies. There's a time to coach and encourage beginners. Just not every specialty meeting or discussion; there's nothing wrong with having a "high bar" in some contexts. It adds to the enjoyment of those at the top of the knowledge curve.




Yes, there are costs that have to be covered. And they do need to offer distinct value beyond pure information. In Eire Philatelic Association, in which I am active, there are at least three value-added member benefits. First, members-only auctions run like clockwork about every two months, the material is good quality and they are well managed. Next, there are face-to-face meetings with pleasant socializing. Finally, for whatever reason, news about developments in Irish philately seems to reach EPA first and is published first. Stuff happens that never appears in this forum or others, but in EPA's journal first. There is a community there that cares about communicating with other specialist members first. For news and unexpected developments where you wouldn't know what question to ask to research it, they really help out. Does this "wall off" others? Perhaps a little, but there are costs that have to be covered, and the height of the "wall" is pretty low.

Quick question for Hoosierboy, since you mentioned obtaining Indiana postal history. Do you have the two volume Postal History of Indiana, by Baker? If so, what is your opinion of it?

I've been thinking of getting it. Leonard Hartmann in Louisville sells it for $75. ( http://pbooks.com ). Thanks.

There is lot of people who do not want to participate in forums. To take a group, look at any number of philatelic writers of articles in Linn's and major societies. They are just not visiting the online discussion to post - at least using their name.

I think the issue is more self-importance (maybe not the perfect word). On forum the dynamic is different, everyone is equal in terms of ability to post on topics and they have to compete with that. This is why APS is likely is avoiding online collaboration to avoid criticism and maintain control. They do not mind controlled meetings. Unfortunately, this is where many of their non-members are meeting.

I recall a situation on another forum some were asked to participate but did not due to a claimed bad climate. When the climate changed, they still did not post. It was just an excuse.

For example, you are not likely to have Mick Zais, APS prez, join to show you his recent collection acquisitions.

Without naming names, in certain cases it is most definitely elitism; collectors/exhibitors that look down their nose at collectors who don't rise to the same level of research and academic pursuits that they do. Putting someone down because they are a topical or aesthetic collector rather than strictly for scholarly or traditional reasons or that don't delve as deep into the intricacies (usages, rates, plating, etc.) as they do.

People that would say (or intimate) "I am a philatelist, whereas you are merely a stamp collector."

It's not so prevalent here as on other boards, where in some cases it runs roughshod over the membership at large... I personally found it very offputting when I was in the early stages of collecting, still struggling to come to grips with all the minutiae.

I would add many groups use the information to feed their journal not their online content. For example, there was a discussion about collaboration to create a Johl=like work for modern stamps online more in wiki style. One response was no philatelic writer would really help since it was not paid and had to due with getting credit. Some people write for their egos as much to educate...similar to revenuecollector's comment. There is an elitism and usually anti-online.

Hah, bring it on, I like my chances. LOL

Seriously though, I love this forum and the level of patience shown by the "experts".
Hopefully if you wall yourself's off you'll still mingle with the serf's from time to time.

Some of the sentiments I have read here sound a bit like what a high school teacher or college professor must feel. They just finish developing a group knowledgeable "experts" who are looking forward to more learning and they are then faced with a new bunch of idiots. Unfortunately, this scenario doesn't extol the satisfaction the teachers felt or the exhilaration they develop for the new challenge. We all need each other so we can all move forward. I would hate to see those who are so knowledgeable about different areas of our hobby isolate themselves from the those seeking guidance.

Don