1847 Issue Stamps - Plating

I like what you are doing with the arrows, but problem is that printing issues make inconsistencies. I always thought that perhaps compared to proofs/specimen, plating the early/1st delivery would be easy but as time went on and got to later printings, all those marks are gone. Makes it super challenging. In addition, where do you start: There are no reliefs like 1c, first you have to figure out if right or left pane, then other than perhaps dot in S column, sheet margins, or lack of guide dot, how do you know where to start.

That's what makes the dot in S such a powerful plating tool. It's the entire column. I thought there could be some consistency in guide dot versus frame line orientation (on line, left of it, right if it, etc). In fact there is I think but it's not consistent enough thru entire column/row to narrow it down.

jaxom100,
If you would like to establish a 1847 plating database on Stamp Smarter please let me know.
Don

Rg, I was thinking more about a database to assist in plating. Like ... mark in right 5 (shows images with marks there), or mark in left 5, mark in left X, mark in right X, mark in "POSTAGE", mark in left margin, etc.

Don, I am considering it. A lot of the Ashbrook photos of #2 are plated. He had some resource that he was using. I think I have made good progress on the 1c for the year that I have been working on it. At least the 1847s only have 1 plate (maybe a plate 1 late on the 5c). It would give me a place to sort my photos and images but I would need to reach out for access to high res scans of as many of these that I can get. Buying them is out of the question.

I agree it is a large undertaking, this is why online 'crowd sourcing' is a good fit. And without question high resolution image contributions are key to this kind of effort. We could also build an image 'holding area' for accumulating high resolution multiples images that are queued for plating and reference.
Don

If you build the database, I will attempt to fill it with as much info as I can get. I like the idea of an image holding area to receive high res singles or multiples to be plated. Maybe you can give me a few ideas on how to build a search database like I was talking about above. Something like that could also be useful for the 1c plating as well. Did you ever get one started for the 10c or 12c issues?

Someone had made up plating drawings for the 5c, although there are no plate numbers associated with the drawings.

Jaxom

It seems to me that whoever made those drawings was trying to plate some interesting multiples and sheet margins but unable to do so!

The person was describing interesting marks as you are doing from the proof sheet but unable to plate the stamps.

Even with the full trial proof pane from right side with image on Siegel, I have failed to plate most strips and blocks that have nice images on Siegel. Most of these blocks and strips have worn impressions.
Bill Gross was only able to plate his huge block of 16 by using alignment of frames related to other stamps, not necessarily from plating marks. He used alignment based on trial proof pane.

I look at this more like a math decoding problem more than just describing marks on specimen pane.
Who is the genius that will decide a method to at least point a 5c specialist in the right direction when looking at a stamp to plate?

So far no one has solved the puzzle and unfortunately there may be no solution here.
But it is fun trying

How plating used to be recorded: Mats. Now with images, people can draw arrows and such on the images all that they want. I have some stacks of plating mats from the 47's sitting around.

The one marked Ashbrook, is very high quality and is definitely one of his mats.

The other two, pretty clearly came from the same source, but I'm not sure who.

These are blank mats, if anyone wants to print them off and use them to make notations on, that's why I'm posting them. Of course, that's pretty 'retro' by today's methods.

The reason no one has completed the first pane is because everyone that tries has nothing to start with. The data is not being passed on. One guy plated the 10c but never published it so it is not of any help. There is a lot of data that we are losing over the years as blocks, strips and pairs are being separated. I am all for gathering what information that I can find before it is lost. Complete it or not, get what can be plated stored online and see what is left. Research is not useful unless it is shared. Ashbrook said that he plated 212 5c positions. I would like to find that information and the 10c information. The only 5c right sheet I found was real low res. Same with the 10c left.

Don, set me up a site for the 1847s. Put them both together, make 4 pages. May need two more for a possible recut of the 5c. Also, a page to store and display blocks. Make them like the 1c and we can make changes from there as needed to fit the issue. It should prove an interesting and educational project.

jaxom - to get started I think the Siegel sheet scans actually aren't too bad. I blew them up on my phone just now and I can make out quite a bit well. I say start with them, like you did with the 1c 1L right pane and edit these by position. The positions will be correct. We can then click on each position to see it. Also breaking the one giant scan of both sheets into two would be good for aggregate reference.

Perry did document the 10c plating in the CCP - I have at least some of it - its a bit disorganized but should work and we need to make it available — but we need to check with the CC first for permission.

I would estimate the image to be about 600 dpi. Not too bad to start with. First thing that I did was separate the sheets, even before I tagged and saved it. I can start cutting them out. We do need to check with the CC.

Edit: I have the sheet of the 5c right pane tagged and cut up, ready to go.

This is The Collectors Club of New York website:

https://www.collectorsclub.org

I'm on my phone out and about now - but later I plan to contact a friend who is one of the main 1847 experts today. I want to see if there is anything else published that I don't know about.

From him I hope to get a contact at the CCNY for permission. If I can't get him we can start with the website.

Excellent discussion. Somewhere in my house I have some of the original mockup plates used to make the illustrations in the Perry article. They have photos of the stamps mounted on cardboard and were used to make the plates in the Perry article. Unfortunately I do not have all of the plates. I am missing 2, 9, and 17. The real problem as noted above is plating the 5¢ and not the 10¢. The problem with the 10¢ is there is no decision tree to lead you to the correct position as there is with the 1¢ and 3¢. The identification of the reliefs has helped in narrowing down places to look for those two designs.

Good luck with the Collectors Club they have refused the right to reproduce those plates. However, they are long out of copyright and you should be free to do what you want.
If you are a serious plater, contact me direct. I can supply high quality PDFs of a set of plates. Sizes are large, a PDF with plates 1-8 is 119 MB and plates 9-17 is 145 MB. These were made by me from original CCNY plates as published in the Perry articles.

Bill - PM sent.