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Show Your US 1851-57 Imperforate Stamps

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Posted 09/08/2022   8:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Copper Brown example of a #10A on cover.

Another italics price - Scott Catalog $1,100 on cover.

Stan Shepp


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Posted 09/08/2022   9:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
stanshepp, I just wanted to congratulate you on the outcome of that 7L2e. H2O2 is tricky stuff. My personal experience is that if you think you want it to sit just a little longer, that you have already gone far enough. I think the human mind 'hopes' that more time will bring out more detail or better color, neither of which are likely to be there with more soaking. I learned early on, on a bunch of cheapies, to always 'leave them wanting more' with the H2O2.

You did a great job with your example. The bath brought out the 'red' that was buried in there somewhere. You didn't damage the impression at all, and you 'freshened' it up tremendously! Thank you for sharing the before/after!
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Posted 09/08/2022   10:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Harper1249 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hey all. Seeking confirmation that this 98L8. Strong frame lines all around led me to Plate 8. Top Right corner of framelines and the top left corner of the position to the right help to narrow this one down. Also the tight gap between the lower right DB and right frame line narrow the candidates. All this led me to 98L8.

Thanks in advance,
Harper1249

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Posted 09/08/2022   10:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Mooter!
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Posted 09/09/2022   10:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
7L5E on a nice Rail Road cover.


(Sandusky, Mansfield & Newark Railroad) "S M & N RR O, Oct 2". Manuscript route agent marking with matching manuscript cancel tying this 3¢ orange brown (Scott #10A), with 4 full margins (to just touching), on a folded letter datelined "Mount Vernon (Ohio) Oct 2nd 1851" Vertical file fold, F.-V.F. and rare. Towle's listed No. 567-M-1.
.
Addressed to:
Messr R. B. Hubbard & Co.
Sandusky City,
Ohio
.
In the auction listing, information taken from Hugh V. Feldman, it mistakenly says:
.
"Put onto Route 9142 to be carried 91 miles north to Sandusky."
.
When I checked in Feldman's book, "U.S. Contract Mail Routes by Railroad (1832-1875)", pages 644-645, he mistakenly lists this cover as being dated in 1857. An easy enough mistake if you look at the way the date reads on the letter inside. But, having collected these covers long enough, I am aware that 1851 often looks like 1857. That's just the way the ink slurs from the top of the 5 to the top of the 1. It looks like a 7. Easy enough to mistake. (Check the comments section of the original post on my personal facebook page by clicking on the cover image and then clicking on the comments, you will see the interior letter)
.
Route 9142 was commissioned from 1856 to 1860. This letter wasn't sent at that time. It was sent in 1851.
.
Route 2165 was commissioned from 1848-1852. This letter travelled during that time period, so on Route 2165.
Feldman is a specialist, don't get me wrong. His understanding of railroads and steamships and the various route agent markings is second to none. Remele and Towle would be impressed at the expansions that he has made to their work. He certainly stood on the shoulders of these giants, and reached for the sky, but none of us is perfect.
.
Let's circle back to the additional information that Feldman gives us:

Feldman notes that Route 2291 was the first contracted mail route – From July 1846 to June 1848, 6 times per week this train went the 61 miles From Mansfield to Sandusky City. The compensation was $2,050 per annum. (Technically, until August 7, 1846 the route only went 39 miles. After that date, the wooden rails were replaced with iron rails on the old Monroeville to Sandusky line service and then the route expanded to the full 61 miles)
.
The second contracted route, 2165, was From July 1848 to June 1852, 6 times per week this train went the 61 miles From Mansfield to Sandusky City. The compensation was $5,229 per annum.
For the July 1848 contract, the Mansfield & Sandusky City Railroad bid $3,000 per annum and the post office countered with, "Offer company $50 per mile per ann. Between Mansfield and Monroeville (45 miles) and also $50 per mile per ann. Additional on No.2296 Mansfield to Newark (63 miles) for the conveyance of the Great through mails for Toledom Chicago, Detroit and beyond. Provided that the company run by such schedules as may be fixed upon by this department. One seventh of the above to be deducted for Sunday service omitted." This resulted in an increase of pay to $4,544 per annum for the final 6 months of the contract.
.
In 1845, the Columbus and Erie Railroad was incorporated and completed 63 miles of track from Newark north to Mansfield by 1850. The post office contracted this route (2296) commencing December 1, 1850. It is probable that the mail cars started travelling through between Newark and Sandusky as of that date.
In late 1851, the road was leased to the Mansfield & Sandusky R.R. for 10 years – and they took over the contract. It is probable that from that day on, they ran the full 124 mile line between Sandusky and Newark – via Mansfield.
.
This explains the history of the routes that existed when our folded letter travelled in late 1851.
.
Feldman continues to explain that ….
.
"Two route agents were appointed on January 1, 1851 being Charles Ruggles and Charles W. Parker. The line continued to have two route agents operating on it through 1872. Two date stamps worded "SANDUSKY & NEWARK R.R." (Towles 567-C-1) and "SANDY & NEWK R.R." (Towles 567-D-1) are recorded as well as a manuscript "S. M. & N. R.R. O." of January 1852. The author has a second form of the manuscript notation of 1857 (Figure OH14)"
.
This is where his mistake shows up. Figure OH14 shows the cover at hand. And Feldman's description says "Figure OH14. Folded letter sheet dated "Mount Vernon Oct 2nd 1857" addressed to Sandusky and put on Route 9142 to be carried the 91 miles north to Sandusky. In the absence of the route agent's date stamp he endorsed the letter "S M & N R R O / Oct 2nd."
.
I will include the images of the other two Route Agents' Circular Date Stamp markings [Towles 567-C-1 (Remele S1-a) and Towles 567-D-1(Remele s1-b)] in the comments section of this post, but first –
.
Remele lists these other two markings as follows:
S1-a SANDUSKY & NEWARK R.R. 33mm Black, blue- 1851-1857
S1-b SANDY & NEWK R.R. 29.5mm Black – 1851-1857
.
Remele notes, "The blue listing of S1-a is from Dr. Chase's list as I have no other record of that color. This is another can be named either a terminal marking or a short name marking, as the railroad was the Sandusky, Mansfield, Newark."
.
Remele also notes:
.
Monroeville, O. to Sandusky 16 miles 1844-1845
Mansfield O. to Sandusky 61 miles 1846-1850 & 1851-1855
Sandusky to Newark, O. 124 miles 1856 & 1857-61
.
Remele remarks that "Route agent service began as early as March 1852, and perhaps earlier.
S1-a is rare, S1-b is extremely rare.
.
(Feldman's research, stated above, showed that two route agents were hired on Jan. 1, 1851)
.
Remele does not list the manuscript marking.
.
Feldman mentions Towle's January 1852 manuscript marking – and mistakenly concludes that the one at hand was from seven years and ten months later – when it was in fact 3 month prior to the Towles example.
.
Towle's listing:
.
567-M-1; S-M & N/ R R O, manuscript, 2 lines, ink, 1852, VI (image in comments section) shows a manuscript marking for this line from 1852 (Jan 31?) and is presumed to be the listing Feldman mentions.
.
The marking at hand does not match that handwriting and is also presumed to have been made by the other Route Agent, Charles. (The first two route agents were both named Charles – we don't know which one was which, but they were not replace until 6-7-1853 (Charles Ruggles) and 6-19-1853 (Charles W. Parker))
.
*****
THE LETTER:
Mount Vernon Oct 2, 1851
Messr R B Hubbard & Co.
Please send me
By the earliest (possible) train possible
Twelve hundred feet of flooring (pine) ready
Worked. Six hundred feet such as
You can afford at $1.60 per hundred
And six hundred of such as you can
Afford at $1.80 per hundred. Also send
Me three thousand lath for plastering
All to be paid for here on delivery
I will pay the freight here.
Send to care of Mr McQueen (?)
Agent for the R road. I shall probably
Desire to purchase about two thousand
Feet more of the latter named grade
Of flooring provided you can wait for
One half the pay until June next
On getting good security in your own
Neighborhood. Please answer this on
receipt immediately & inform me when
you can forward the stuff now ordered
and what you can do on my last proposi-
tion Respectfully yours in
Matthew H. Mitchell
*****
The sender:
Matthew H. Mitchell shows up in the 1850 Census as being a 41 year old Lawyer who was born in Ohio, his apparent wife, Anna M Mitchel was 33 and had been born in Ireland. Residing with them were Margaret Smith, 18, also born in Ireland and what appear to be two sons and a daughter – Henry Mitchell, 12, M. Edward Mitchell, 7, and Mary R Mitchell, 9.
.
Matthew lists real estate valued at $8,000.
*****
The town sent from:
Mount Vernon, Knox County, Ohio was a thriving community of 3,711 people in 1850.
.
Know County was named after Revolutionary War hero Henry Knox, who was immortalized on an 8c, 1985 US Postage Stamp in the Great Americans Series (Scott #1851)
*****
The addressee:
.
During the mid-1850s the firm of R. B. Hubbard and Company, which included Connecticut-born entrepreneurs Langdon Hubbard, his brother Watson, and cousin Rollin B., built a steam-powered sawmill on Willow Creek. The company town they developed was named Huron City in 1861. A horse-drawn tram carried the mill's products to a nearby dock in Lake Huron for transport to the firm's lumber yard in Sandusky, Ohio.
*****
The town addressed to:
.
Sandusky is the county seat of Erie County, Ohio. "Sandusky" means "at the cold water" in Wyandot.
.
Founded in 1817, Sandusky originally was called Portland. In 1838, the Ohio government created Erie County and established Sandusky as the county seat.
.
Sandusky grew quickly. By 1846, approximately three thousand people resided in the town. Two railroads served the community, and it was an important harbor on Lake Erie, making Sandusky an important economic center.
.
In 1846, Sandusky merchants exported 843,746 bushels of wheat. The town consisted of numerous stores, two printing offices, two machine shops, two banks, six churches, one high school, and several iron furnaces. During the 1840s and 1850s, Sandusky also was an important stop on the Underground Railroad, with many residents assisting fugitive slaves in their search for freedom by transporting the African Americans to Canada.

Stan Shepp


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Posted 09/09/2022   5:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Caper123 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The best match I can seem to find for this one is 8R2E. It's not as orange of my other 10A's and I am not crazy about the gap in the two right frame lines and the fact that the lower frame line on mine expends a bit below the lower frame line which do not match well with the 3c Plating Archive's stamp.

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Posted 09/10/2022   3:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I thought that some of you might enjoy what Alexander lists as a Rarity 10 Masonic cancel tying an imperf 3c Washington - Scott's #11A - to a cover.

Plated as 9R5L -
I'd be happy if someone would concur.

Comes with (2) PF Certs (#560307 - 5/8/2019 & 0171439 - 03/16/1987) Images not shared.

Enjoy!
Stan Shepp

Here is Alexander's listing in Simpson's:


A rotated image:


Original image:


Full Cover:


POSTMARK Reveal helps it to be seen a little bit:

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Edited by stanshepp - 09/11/2022 12:41 am
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Posted 09/10/2022   8:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nothing special about this cover - other than the #10A that adorns it!

Sharing for your enjoyment. Unplated.

Stan Shepp


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Posted 09/10/2022   8:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stanshepp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Who doesn't like a nice #10A on a Rail Road cover?

Again, unplated. Sorry.

A. & St. L. & A. & KENBk. R.R." "24 SEP" (Rarity 6 Agent Marking) and a beautiful blue "fancy circle of wedges with a tiny cross at the center" (Per PF Cert - 552817 06/27/2018)

Pencil note on reverse (Chase?) cancelled with a blue rosette on the cover in blue PAID + "A & St L & A Kenbk R R" Rare RR
Atlantic & St. Lawrence & Androscoggin & Kennebec R. R.

Listed in Remele's US RAILROAD POSTMARKS as A6-a which includes the PAID and the Circle of Wedges.

Listed in the following colors:
Red - 1847-51
Blue - 1851-57
Blue - 1857-61

Remele notes: The fancy rosette killer, as shown, was sometimes used with A6-a

I have several copies of this Route Agent Marking, which I think is pretty cool, but I have never seen the rosette killer that goes with it. I don't think that I have seen the PAID marking either.


I cannot find the rosette listed in Alexander's Simpson's, or Skinner & Eno.

BTW, I LOVE this killer cancel!!

Stan Shepp








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Posted 09/10/2022   8:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Harper1249 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Caper123,

I believe your stamp is 1R3. The frame lines for 8R2E don't match up well with yours. Especially the right frame line extending below the bottom frame line. That is missing on 8R2E. See the SSD example for 1R3, I think it matches up quite nicely with yours. Hopefully Ioagoa and others can confirm.

Regards,
Harper1249

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Edited by Harper1249 - 09/10/2022 8:46 pm
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Posted 09/10/2022   8:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Caper123 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Harper. Looks like 1R3 it is!
Didn't notice the dot on the top of the ULDB.
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Edited by Caper123 - 09/10/2022 8:55 pm
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Posted 09/11/2022   5:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 40yearBreak to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have only been on SCF for about 3 months now, but I was quickly intrigued by this thread and have binge read the entire thing (all 159 pages) and learned a lot. Thanks to all those who have contributed. One thing I learned was that you need to scan these A10 Washington 3c stamps at 1200 dpi or higher to be able to see the needed details. I have an Epson XP-810 all-in-one device, and needed to do FW and Utility upgrades to be able to get to the higher scan rates. Two things I am looking for feedback on are 1) is this scan good enough quality to attempt plating, and 2) is there enough of this stamp left to plate. It is missing the entire right side of the stamp from basically the diamond blocks out.

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Posted 09/12/2022   3:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ioagoa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hey 40YearBreak --

Welcome to the 1851 Imperforate forum !!

Regarding the stamp you posted -- given enough time and patience it should be plateable. A few comments / observations:

The stamp has 3 full FL's showing -- and the TFL has some pretty distinctive bends (i.e., the bends in the TFL -- in combination with what looks like perhaps some recutting in the Upper Label Block -- create distinctive white spacing relationships between the two that are very useful plating characteristics).

The stamp looks to be a Relief B -- and if it had a GD -- it surely got cut-off with the RFL.

The stamps left inner line has not been recut -- and while technically possible that it could be a "right inner line only recut variety" (which would have to be from plate 5L given that your stamp is not an Orange Brown and none of the other "no inner line" plates have that variety) -- my initial impression is that the stamp is from Plate 4 -- (i.e., based on the weak LFL and the strong BFL -- which is one of the tell-tale characteristics of Plate 4).

Another typical feature on Plate 4 is that the weakish LFL is often too close to the design. Using that feature -- If I were going to invest the time into plating this stamp -- I would start by going through all of the B reliefs on Plate 4 -- and quickly eliminate those where the LFL is too close to the ULDB in comparison to your stamp.

After that, it becomes a more tedious process of elimination -- but based on what I am seeing, it is definitely a plateable stamp. Still, as Dr. Chase commented in his book -- stamps from plate 4 are among the easiest to identify the plate from which the stamp came -- but are among the most difficult to plate to their specific position.

Since you mentioned that you have read this entire thread from the start -- you should have already stumbled upon the traditional research tools and data reference sets -- all of which are free -- so I will not provide redundant "links" here (e.g., the Chase book can be downloaded from the USPCS website, the Chase photo's from the Smithsonian website, the StampSmarter data base, and of course, the StampPlating website and its plating wizard).

Good luck -- and we can always use more 3-cent collectors -- so hopefully you are intrigued enough to dive deeper into the collecting area.

Regards // ioagoa

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Posted 09/12/2022   11:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Harper1249 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Welcome 40yearBreak!
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Posted 09/13/2022   1:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Harper1249 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have been working on plating this one and I think it is 66R4. It matches well with Chase and SSD but it does not match up well with the Lund example for this position. I'm wondering if Lund may be incorrect. My specimen shows the left frame line extending up beyond the top frame line possibly running all the way up to stamp above it. Chase and SSD do not show this area of the stamp but I did find an example on Siegel that does show the left frame line extending up. It's not the clearest of images. Hoping you all can confirm this as 66R4.

Thanks Harper1249

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