Question About Cancellation

I've not seen anything like this cancel. Does anyone know anything about numeral cancels being used ? This may be from Norfolk, Va. There was a William W. Shawcross there in the 1920 Census data, or Norfolk, Mass. (same guy),1930 Census data. Stamp is a 499.

This cancel is something totally nonstandard, if it is genuine. There are numbers in circles used later c.1930, that were also numbers in circles that look to be improvised from price marking rubberstamp sets. However, those were used by (a) small office(s). For first class mail (if ever used that way), they made sure a CDS or 4 bar cancel was also struck.

"24" may have to do with December 24, of course. Plus Christmastime and the (apparent) 2c postcard rate says 1917 (only). You have a name; you need to put it with an address. That will be found in city directories, many of which are online. There is a Llewellyn Ave. in Norfolk, VA; was there also one in Norfolk MA?

Since the stamp isn't tied by the 24 in circle, it may be just a card that missed cancellation that someone decided to "improve" later. 1917 is an unlikely year for a fancy/nonstandard cancel, also.

I've not seen one like this before! If this is a Christmas card, it may have been posted on Dec. 24, hence the "24". But I can't offer much more than that.

A few observations:

1. The 2-cent WWI card rate was in effect November 2, 1917 - June 30, 1919, thus this card is either 1917 or 1918.

2. I agree it is Norfolk, VA, (as I too found Llewellyn Ave via Google maps) and as Norfolk, MA did not have city delivery at that time.

3. Having the Christmas message, I lean toward this being a crude local provisional "day date" for the 24th fully contrary to the postmarking regulations. Quite unusual if genuine!

Thank you John Becker. Sorry about that. I thought the wartime rate lasted for about a couple of years, but StampSmarter has December 1918 dates having the 1c rate. Please confirm (though I trust John Becker) and please correct this, Don.

Sorry to reply so late. Been away from home all day today. It is a Christmas card. I agree, 1917-18 usage. I'd also agree with Virginia as the town location. A contrived Christmas Eve cancel sounds logical. And as implied, if it was genuinely applied through the post office, which we'll probably never know unless others pop-up somewhere. Interesting none the less.

If so, it is wrong; 11-2-1917 through 6-30-1919 are the dates as John Becker wrote.

The "circle 24" cancel is consistent with a simple military cancellation. Norfolk which had city delivery and 6 rural routes had 27 military branch post offices, three named independent offices (Ballentine, Berkeley, and De Bree) and 24 branches named, No. 1, No.2, ... No. 24.

Ballentine, Berkeley, De Bree and No.1 were the only military branch offices with International Money Order service.

Then that would make this a cancellation for the military branch office #24. Good to know. Its the first I ever seen. Thanks for letting us know about that. I wonder if others may have one to post? Would be interesting to see others from any of the 24 branches.

Fascinating data and logic to interpret a likely story! I really like how community members weaved this together.

While this may coincide with Military Station 24, I cannot see the USPOD tolerating this on any regular basis from multiple stations.

Morning all,

Very possibly a non postal device used for postal purposes? Now if we could just find an example or two of this type of device used for its intended purpose outside the postal system?

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I think that has already been guessed here. Very, very unlikely during the period where this was thought to be used. Date of usage is not really confirmed absolutely.

Parcelpost guy, since you make assertions, The burden of proof is on you.

• Exactly how is a 24 in circle consistent with a US military cancel of the World War I era? Those would still require a CDS with a generic location and date, I would think. This is still US first-class mail


• What are the dates of operation of the no. 24 branch PO? Minimally, what is opening date or closing of that?


• Where was branch 24 located?


• Best proof obviously would be to show us scan of mail from branch 24. Failing that, I think we'd accept a cover from any numbered Norfolk branch using this same style of killer. Smaller offices around this time would have a four bar or other duplex cancel. That a CDS is missing here is quite odd.

Al E. Gator, can you show us a scan of the front? Even if there is trace of any marking on the picture side, it could possibly be useful. Of course, you should check if the 24 marking glows rather brightly under UV. If so, the 24 was struck sometime about the 1960s and later.

In Langford's Flag Cancel Encyclopedia the type of cancel below was in used 1918-1919 (exact dates not specified):

MILITARY BRANCH would be in the open flag portion. The dial would just read Norfolk, Va with the date, of course. Similarly, there is a NAVAL BASE STATION cancel, used 1917-21.

I would suspect all Norfolk army-related branch mail would be consolidated at this point and used this cancel for regular mail. This is reported to be so for the Chattanooga military branch cancel by Langford.

I make no assertions, I am merely quoting from the USPOD Postal Guide(s) from the relevant time period regarding Norfolk, Virginia. You or anyone else can go look it up. The fact is there was a military office called "No. 24" during the time period in question.


If one is going to begin to demand proof of assertion, let's start with proof of the city and state from where the card was mailed. Googled supposition is just that. Plus, folks don't tell the truth on census questions, even POTUS Obama refused to indicate the choice of two or more races, picking only one.


Next what year was this item handled? While Christmastime mail required 2 cents for 1917 and 1918, why can this card not be overpaid by a cent prior or post those two Christmastime periods? Or even posted later when the postcard rate was again 2 cents.

Verify if no standard postmarking or other cancelling manner is not available, then cite the regulation which demands fully prepaid mail is to be delayed until a correct cancelling device is available.

Next verify that this card went through the mails or prove this item was not a private, carried outside of the mails postcard, with the required, due to monopoly, stamp affixed and rendered non-reusable.

Verify there was no carrier number 24 in Norfolk and that said carrier did not possess a handstamp with that, his, number.

Lastly, explain how for each point, Occam's Razor does or does not apply and why.

I was away from the house all day again. Working on some repairs at my daughters. Here's the front of the card.



From Census data: I believe this was addressed to Elizabeth "Bessie" Larue McCready (1892-1960) who married William Walker Shawcross 2/23/1909. They were in Norfolk, Virginia in the 1920 Census and he was an insurance salesman (agent) for the Home Beneficial Co. They were in Norfolk, Mass. in the 1930 Census. They were in Indiana in the 1910 Census.

Parcelpostguy, the assertion which begs some additional examples to corroborate is:

I agree other examples would help, if they exist. since we all can agree that the "circle 24" is a non-standard stamp cancellation marking, without more information most any explanation is in play. However, a "circle 24" would indicate some association with a "24" something or somebody. Of course if there is no association between the 24 and anything else, feel free to make something up. For me I have little interest in the subject and the item in the OP. I already regret mentioning the information from the postal guide. Everyone's speculation is just that, speculation and story telling as factual answers will not be found. There will always be reasonable doubt.

My advice now is to toss the OP's postcard into the recycled paper bin and be done with it. It is completely worthless since it will never be understood--cannot even say factually where, when, why and how it was used. What is the point wasting space for it?