Counterfeit Forever Stamps

I think the point is that it would be one thing if these were fixed price listings offered at 25% of face. Auctions are a completely different dynamic, and a seller's minimum bid setting cannot be interpreted as being somehow indicative of the source or legitimacy of the material.

Regular auction sellers with large followings routinely start items at 99 cents regardless of value. It has no bearing on the items themselves.

A question to answer is this, what is the current bulk wholesale percentage of face for forever stamps in your area? Getting 25-30% of face, in cash is considered a win here.

I'm having a hard time believing the story behind ebay dealer after ebay dealer who somehow has large quantities of current Forever stamps that they're happy to sell for about 25% below face value. I can understand an occasional estate sale or business liquidation, but that doesn't explain seller after seller with what appears to be an unlimited inventory of current stamps at virtually the same discount. Unless there's a legitimate wholesale source that I'm unaware of, the economics simply don't add up. How can so many sellers repeatedly acquire genuine stamps at prices low enough to make money while selling them for only 75% of face value? That pattern makes me skeptical that these are all legitimate stamps.

I am sure that some are not. But saying all are bad is not a good idea; proof is still required in each case. Since we can't do that, we have to just have to wonder which are which.

Here's another one of these suspect sellers. It's an offer, not an auction, for $600+ face for $200, or $169 each if you buy four or more of the lots. It says they have sold 12 and have 10 more available. They are mostly Forever stamps with some older denominated stamps sprinkled in. If you do the math, they are selling these stamps for between 33% to 28% of face. The 22 lots in this one listing total over $13,000 face, mainly in Forever stamps. This same seller has numerous other lots for sale that are similar to this one. It looks like they have sold untold $1000s of face value in the last 6 months. Two buyers have said they received counterfeit stamps which the seller of course denies since they always UV test them.

I have seen several listing or buy it now listing on ebay which I think are counterfeits. I can not see anyone selling stamps at such a large discount. Especially when they are forever stamps. I have also seen high demomination stamps in sheets of four being sold at a steep discount. Those or being offered out of the United Kingdom on ebay. They are most assuredly counterfeit. Has anyone other than myself seen these listings if so what is your thoughts.

I have seen those high denomination mini sheets being sold way too cheap and in way too large of quantities on ebay. I wouldn't touch any of them. The Priority Mail and Priority Mail Express stamps have been counterfeited just like the Forever stamps.

No legitimate seller with two brain cells to rub together would knowingly lowball thousands of dollars of these modern stamps, especially Forever stamps and especially on ebay unless they were bogus. Seeing so many sellers engaging in the same activity is a massive red flag and ebay sees that and chooses to look the other way. It's shameful but since ebay has no apparent legal exposure to consequences it continues.

This is not a victimless crime. USPS continues to lose money while performance plummets. My mail is always getting "lost" now or delayed by days or even weeks while corrupt entities siphon off hundreds of millions in revenue for fake stamps that people use to receive costly services in return.

These activities are historic in scope and China is the main culprit.

If it continues at this rate what is the outcome? How much is too much to lose?

"A question to answer is this, what is the current bulk wholesale percentage of face for forever stamps in your area? Getting 25-30% of face, in cash is considered a win here."

1) Buyers in your area are pathetically cheap.
2) Buy prices for forevers are depressed everywhere due to the abundance of counterfeits.

"I am sure that some are not. But saying all are bad is not a good idea; proof is still required in each case. Since we can't do that, we have to just have to wonder which are which."

It only takes the two brain cells rog referenced to see that the examples currently being discussed are almost certainly counterfeit.

Two brain cells can certainly say that some are counterfeit. No quantity of brain cells can say that all are counterfeit without checking them all. That's called proof. Not supposition.

True. But at some point the market becomes so saturated with counterfeit stamps that the presumption shifts. When current Forever stamps are being offered at steep discounts, the default assumption has to be that they're counterfeit or stolen unless there's credible evidence to the contrary.









In my opinion, we've passed that point.

Presumption is fine on a personal level. Then one makes a decision to buy or not to buy. But it's not a good idea to automatically do so on everything offered when posting about them on a chat board. As I have pointed out before, it's condemning without proof. Even if the odds favor it, it's always a bad idea.

I recently picked up. Large lot of forever stamps on whatnot (auction site). And as I compare them to known USPS genuine, I notice that they all have tagging but is much brighter than the known genuine.

I've become increasingly frustrated with how ebay handles counterfeit U.S. postage stamps.

I recently purchased USPS Forever stamps from a high-volume ebay seller with 100% positive feedback. The first purchase was only a block of four stamps costing less than $10.

A few hours later, before receiving or inspecting the first order, I made a second, more expensive purchase of three booklets. Because this was a larger purchase, I intended to buy sealed booklets from a different seller so I could be confident they were genuine. However, I mistakenly placed the second order with the same seller.

I received the first order first. After carefully comparing the stamps with genuine USPS examples and documented counterfeit references, I found multiple characteristics consistent with counterfeits, including differences in die cutting, printing, microprinting, and UV response.

I contacted the seller, explained the authenticity problems I found, and requested a return and refund.

Later, I received the second order. I inspected those stamps as well and found similar problems. Again, I contacted the seller, explained the issue, and requested a return and refund.

I then left negative feedback on the first transaction specifically to warn other buyers.

The seller refunded me. A few days later, my negative feedback disappeared.

Frustrated that the warning had disappeared, I left negative feedback on the second transaction, describing the authenticity problems I found.

Again, I had been refunded. A few days later, the negative feedback disappeared.

To clarify an important point: I did not discover counterfeit stamps and then knowingly go back to the same seller for more. The two purchases were made only hours apart, before I had received or inspected either order.

I finally contacted ebay Customer Service and asked what was happening. The explanation I received was essentially that because the seller had worked with me and refunded the transactions, the negative feedback could be removed.

That is an absurd way to deal with suspected counterfeit postage.

A refund fixes my financial loss. It does NOT make counterfeit stamps genuine.

If this is how the system works, a seller can sell questionable stamps to large numbers of buyers, refund the relatively small number who recognize the counterfeits and complain, and potentially have their negative feedback removed afterward. Meanwhile, buyers who don't recognize the differences may continue purchasing and using them.

And anyone who searches ebay for discounted Forever stamps can see just how many suspiciously cheap listings there are. Counterfeit modern U.S. postage is not some obscure theoretical problem.

This is where I have a serious problem with ebay. ebay earns money when merchandise sells. The more transactions that occur, the more money the marketplace makes. That creates an obvious conflict of incentives when aggressive enforcement against counterfeit merchandise could mean removing sellers, listings, and transaction volume.

I cannot prove that ebay deliberately allows counterfeit stamps because it wants the fees, and I'm not claiming that I can. But from a collector's perspective, the system certainly appears to reward the wrong behavior.

A seller who unknowingly, or knowingly, sells counterfeit stamps should not be able to erase the warning simply by refunding the buyer who caught them.

Refund the buyer? Absolutely.

Remove an accurate warning about the authenticity problem just because a refund was issued? Absolutely not.

After seeing two of my own negative feedbacks disappear, I also no longer consider a seller's 100% positive feedback to be a reliable indication that previous buyers haven't experienced serious problems. The seller I purchased from had 100% positive feedback when I made these purchases. Now I have to wonder how many other negative experiences may have disappeared after refunds.

If ebay really wants a marketplace buyers can trust, suspected counterfeit merchandise should trigger an authenticity/enforcement review independent of whether the seller refunded the complaining buyer.

Otherwise, the message the system sends is disturbing:

Sell it. If somebody catches it, refund them. Remove the negative feedback. Keep selling.

That's not meaningful protection against counterfeits. That's a system that can allow the problem to perpetuate.

EDIT (Timeline clarification) My original wording incorrectly made it sound as though I made the second purchase after discovering the problem with the first. The two purchases were actually made only hours apart, before I received or inspected either order. I have corrected the timeline above.