Stamp Prices In Catalogues

Like you, Mazdoc, I collect stamps of Lebanon (and Syria), and noticed that the catalogue I initially used (SG) quoted very high prices - especially for recent issues. Then I noticed that the prices seemed to be directly related to the face value.
Presumably this is the default "system", when trading in recent issues has not yet established the market value. Unfortunately a very disadvantageous exchange rate seems to have been used - LL250 to GB£1. The current rate is around LL1700 to GB£1. Hence prices quoted are 3 to 4 times higher in the catalogue than they could be had the prevailing exchange rate been used. I appreciate that the Lebanese currency has suffered a severe loss in value in recent times, sadly.
I recently bought another catalogue (Michel) and the prices quoted are more realistic - Euro1.5 to LL1000. Of course it depends which catalogue the seller is using, and if the stamp is listed. I have found that German sources have more reasonable prices for Middle East stamps than British dealers, but that is only my experience.

So I was talking yesterday to one of the major dealers and collectors in Lebanon, and we discussed this topic.
It seems that some dealers send a certain amount of stamps to the publishers and the dealer gets to set the price.
As an example , take the stamps of the trucial states (Fujeira, Ajman, Sharjah...etc) which were printed in very large amounts, yet they have incredibly high prices in the catalogues. (I'm not talking about the CTO versions, there are copies of those stamps that are truly mint).

Mazdoc

Are you saying the prices in Michel for the Trucial States are because some dealer sent stamps to Michel and let the dealer set the price,

I notice a big difference in old commonwealth stuff like a set of UK Victoria Jubilee sets used and other QV higher values used can be had for a few % of SG cat value, whereas early used New Zealand Chalon heads can make over 20% of SG cat.

Also some newer commonwealth stuff values greatly between country higher values of mint stamps like some from the Falkland's or south georgia sell on ebay for around 50% cat value whereas Jersey or IoM only make 5-10% of SG cat at best

The SG catalogues list prices at which SG will sell you the stamps from their staffed premises at 399 Strand and guarantee you the sold items are genuine. If I would have to pay SG prices on ebay, I would send an email to SG ordering the stamps.

Also, SG lists prices for very fine stamps. Most of the used stamps on ebay have issues. Quite a few stamps offered there are utter garbage. Also, many have been wrongly identified. Even if they look nice, the back may be a disaster. Nice buys can be had from people who want to sell their stamps and do not want to have to wait very long. The prices for their items are dragged down by the 'garbage' on offer.

Most British stamps have been issued in large quantities with only few good examples surviving. The Post Office was very paranoid when it came to re-use of stamps. The word obliterator exactly says what their cancellations tried to achieve. The IRS was even worse and from unification (1881) required double fugitive inks for printing of stamps. Many of the stamps also have washed colours. The SG catalogue prices are for stamps with fresh colours and light cancels leaving the Queen's profile clear.

The Channel Islands are mostly issuing wallpapers. I cancelled my standing orders with them. The stamps they issue look good, However, the number of sets they issue, many with a high-value stamp and souvenir sheet is much too high for the population, even if all the cows would require stamps. The Falklands and dependencies have issued stamps much longer and are taken more seriously than the Channel Islands.

My take:
• Catalog prices are generally based on adjusted historic prices. The catalogs don't have a huge staff to research pricing overall, a huge job. So many prices really haven't changed for decades. As for pinpoint accuracy of catalog pricing, forget it. There have been a lot of cheap to intermediate-priced used QV to KGV stamps in (say) Cyprus and British Guiana that I have never been able to find, even with revenue cancels, even faulty. Even mint examples are only typically found in complete sets when those can be found. So I feel those singles need to be priced higher and I would (still) pay more in any case to get what I am missing.
• ebay is really somewhere between wholesale and retail, ignoring the hugely overpriced and nearly-destroyed stamps and others that go unsold for one reason or another. So prices there are not a reflection of the retail market to which catalog prices more closely related.
• Collectors and sellers appear to have little experience with varying degrees of quality, so except for maybe the upper end of US and foreign classics market, there is a lot of disconnect between pricing vs. condition/quality. For one, having 80% of a stamp does not mean it's worth 80% of catalog value. I see a lot of "hard"/standardized pricing at half-Scott but one seller can have 3 of the same stamp each with different centering/quality but priced the same. That makes no sense. But maybe that's just being lazy or uncaring. At the other end of the spectrum, I only just found a specialist in reasonable-looking faulty stamps priced cheaply as I expect them to be. Most sellers price faulty stamps as sound, as if it wasn't a concern.
• Going back to the prices on Victorian stamps, they are not usually well-centered and are often heavily hinged, among other factors. Catalog prices, as NSK notes, reflect stamps of the highest quality. Check out what's being offered for the Great Britain 1883-84 issue, particularly used. Very nearly all are faded to some degree, often severely. But if you've never seen fresh examples, then you won't know the difference. And faded stamps like those are hardly worth anywhere close to half-Scott.
• Most sellers nowadays clearly never learned or don't care to learn pricing vs. quality. Too much work, I suppose. A couple of longtime dealers I've worked for asked me for my pricing scheme since they saw how much of what I worked up actually sold. Whether they really understood it was a question, since "LH" to them meant "hinge remnant that you could kind of see through".
• There are issues that are seldom well-centered and catalogs will often mention that. Many buyers still consider those to be undesirable and (say) ebay prices can be quite low unless a couple of collectors who have read the note step in to bid.

"The catalogs don't have a huge staff to research pricing overall, a huge job. So many prices really haven't changed for decades"

If you will read the blubs Scott puts out each year for each volume, they will say we reviewed the values for such-and-such countries and values are generally up x% or down y% - the list of countries list is not the full list of countries for that volume. They are admitting the don't review every country every year.

I look at catalog values as somewhat analogous to "manufacturer's suggested retail price" (MSRP) used for consumer goods. MSRP is nearly always inflated so retailers can advertise discounts.

For Scott Catalogs, people need to remember that prices are based on sound examples in the grade of very fine, sold individually by a full service dealer. When taking this into account, values may not be quite as inflated as one may initially think, particularly for classic material, most of which is neither sound nor VF grade. Stamps falling short of those standards sold online by a part time dealer or individual collector (probably most common way stamps are sold today), would of course be expected to sell for steep discounts. Others have mentioned 25% or so as a starting point, which is probably as good a number as any.

The last 5-10 years, some of these 'Lilacs and Greens' have been almost impossible to find unmounted and rarely pop up unused hinged. Even cancelled stamps are becoming scarce very fine. And they are not the most expensive ones from this set.

What about the price difference between Stanley Gibbons and British Stamp Market Values?

I will ignore that all the catalogues have a lot of advertising. This makes me think about some obscure interest. How can SG be objective establishing their own price? If you want to talk about the quality of their stamps there are cases when this can be questioned.

We should not forget that they also sell some forgeries.
https://www.stanleygibbons.com/shop...pe=Forgeries

I'm not sure what your point about forgeries is - some forgeries have a value to collectors. Unless Gibbons is selling forgeries as genuine, which it is not in the items in the link, what's the problem?

As stamp dealers, Gibbons and Yvert don't have to be "objective" in their pricing - although they should sensibly remain within the bounds of credibility.

'Market' is a lot of garbage mixed in with excellent stamps.
Most of the very fine to excellent material is offered by professional dealers at at least 50% of catalogue.

If you look at what is on offer, B&B is somewhat cheaper, but the gum is not always the best.
Sandafayre is somewhat cheaper than SG but quite expensive. usually, their material is good.
Andrew G. Lajer is even cheaper - I think he used to work at SG - but I do not know the quality of his material.
Mark Bloxham is another big name that is cheap but above most of what is on offer on ebay and Delcampe. I see him offer reasonable stamps but I also see him offer absolute crap as if they are good stamps.

And I fully agree with GeoffHa. Those 'Liquidation of Empire' German propaganda forgeries have nothing to do with defrauding collectors. They have a value for collectors as forgeries. The same holds for several famous forgeries. You will also pay a good price for the famous Stock Exchange Forgery for being exactly that.

@GeoffHa
As you said, within the bounds of credibility...

If SG and YT do not have to be objective, how can a collector value his own stamps?
What is the right price? The price SG asks on its site or the price I can get selling my collection for similar stamps?

This thing with forgeries it is a little bit questionable, at least for me.
It is illegal to buy a Rolex copy but a stamp forgery is acceptable.
Obviously as far as YT uses the expression "faux pour servir" in their catalogues, stamp forgeries are accepted by the stamp community, even wanted as study subject or collected...Maybe in the future I will change my opinion about it... :)

In terms of "valuing", I suppose that, like most people, I'd work from a rough percentage of the SG or Yvert price. For modern mint stamps, which haven't been subject to the same ravages as classics, that will be around 15% of CV (in the case of decimal GB, around 50% of face).

Scott Catalog for many years past , they had the whole world on 5 year rotation and review . There were exceptions if some country got "hot " then it was part of a annual review . This system worked well for many years .


The use of price list and dealers buy and sell pricing from price list and ads in major philatelic publications help to establish current prices . This all started to disappear in the 1990's and by the 2000's and ebay it faded .


So the question becomes HOW ABOUT TODAY ?

Let's look at pricing now -------- any takers -------how are you pricing stamps ?