Canada Picture Postage Stamps

I need one ! I need one ! :D

Puzzler, I thought I put the stamp low enough to miss the hideous spray cancel . Usually the P.O. clerk lets me cancel the stamps myself, but due to a Christmas crowd, she put it aside for hand cancelling, and it appears she not only missed the stamp, but missed up from down.

Bee See, I think some clerks, post mistresses, trying to do well, intentionally almost miss the stamp because they thing the desgn of the stamp should be kept clear. Two here that I know of are like that too.

The POCON cancel just hit the stamp.

I don't mind a line of the ink-jet cancel hitting the stamp, in fact, I actually prefer it sometimes. I think the lower line that says 'postcanada.ca' is nice if you can get ' . . canada . .' on the stamp. Kind of legitimizes it somehow.

Some people like the date to show.

I keep an envelope #10 (I have most of those) handy that has a Picture Postage stamp already mailed on it with the cancel so I can measure it against other envelopes I make, so the stamp is hit correctly.

I have noticed that the machines in the sortation plant here will refuse to ink-spray-jey cancel and send it along to the fellow with the roller cancel if I have the stamp a bit too low or off to the left too much (trying to get just the date or postal code) (or have more than one stamp on the envelope).

I just thought I should have kept examples of these rollers on cover to show me (and others) what Not to do in stamp placement.

And I owe you one or two also I think. Msut get busy for the after Christmas rush.

And Bee See also!

Haven't visited the downtown post office yet with the pictorial postmark.

New just in


Mahajana College in Tellippalai, Sri Lanka I believe.
English speaking I think. Also one on Scarborough, Ontario.

Puzzler & BeeSee - I have been studying all of your material as well as BeeSee's website and I would like to have a go at creating a catalog of Picture postage 2063-4. I have some ideas for a numbering system and would like to e-mail a copy to you guys for input and criticism. What do you think am I too late or is the timing OK.
Let me know OK.
Cheers: Murray

Great idea Murray, you are not too late. I will be happy to help you, especially since my website does not attempt to document all known types. I did receive your email a few days ago and will respond - I had an overly busy week at the office.

Rallymanm, go ahead, I will be most interested. I have been slow at everything lately so thanks for your patience. One consideration perhaps is whether the sheet / printing number should be included in any database / list. I have never ordered more than 40 at a time so do not know if the sheet number changes if you order say 80 or more of the same stamp or does it stay the same.

I know from previous email contact with CBN Co that they do not have a list of any sort of the stamps printed, such as topic or whatever. Of course some of the information would be private but the sheet number (and printing date on the botteom left?) would be helpful if available.

After some thought, instead of going back and forth via email, I think it would be better to discuss this online so anyone else who has an idea can contribute and we can all see what the other is up to and share with everyone.

Sometimes everyone will think an idea is OK but someone will think of something that no one else has yet, or else see an error also.


It has been suggested using the Scott catalogue numbering system of #2063 and #2064 to start with.

I think we have to be keeping in mind that other collectors around the world might like to use this database or list too and might not have access to a Scott catalogue.

Catalogue number might not be a good idea because of Scott's proprietary ownership / copyright of their numbering system (and possibly other catalogue makers also).


I think we should start by being universal a bit to appeal to a wider audience and so it doesn't have to be changed in the future.

I think to make this as universal and open to adaptation to possibly other personalized stamps in the future we could start with the (seemingly redundant right now) convention of the two-letter international designation of the country of issue. So that would be CA for Canada.

I like this as I now have some personalized stamp from other countries also.

Using the first year of issue for that design type next will be helpful worldwide, and work at helping people find the stamp in their catalogues if they wish to.

It would be nice somehow to incorporate the actual year of issue or printing or impression but I think to keep this sortable and universal that number should be used after the description when known, possible with an 'I' prefix meaning Impression (English / French).

So,
CA-2004- (dashes optional but more readable for now)

There are more than two types of Canada Picture Postage also, the older Picture Postage, 46c, 47c and also non-denominated, most all with varying different borders.

Then with issued face value?
46ct (cent) (two-letter abbreviation of currency)
47ct (cent)
Since we are using the country name anyway do we need the currency abbreviation also?

Could this be changed to 00.46 (French way is 00,46 I think, so similar)? Or 0046 to help with the numbering?

This would leave room for expansion to a higher face value in the future, and be more universal and understandable worldwide and be sortable / find-able / search-able? .

Perm (permanent / French permantente) (same as forever, non-denominated)
(hmmm, does this leave room for expansion? Perhaps there will be not only domestic use stamps but USA rate or International rate in the future? Or also thinking of other country's stamps and issues also here (Europe, World).

(When using Non-denominated, N-D, or No Value Indicated = NVI then the multi-language (at least English / French) way is mixed up and ruined.)

So, so far, possibly,
CA-2000-0046-
or
CA-2004-Perm-

Then comes the border framing type.
Silver Ribbon = ribbon?
Photo Album = album?
are the two used for the current Picture Postage stamps but there are also the older style frames:
Red Roses = roses ? red-roses?
Silver = silver ? silver-metal ?
Christmas = xmas , is this universal?
Mahogany = wood
Gold Leaf = gold-leaves ?
Baby = baby
I think I like the full names myself.
Can we abbreviate these into on word? Some yes, some no. The Red Roses could be just Roses but no, the Baby frame has roses on it also so could be confused. Or the Silver frame could be confused with the Silver Ribbon perhaps.

I am not sure, I haven't thought about this so far.

ca-2001-perm-red-roses- ?


So far, on my computer, I have been using a descriptive way of numbering different pictures of different stamps. It orders them on the computer (and in a database) and when I know the basic names that stamps are sorted by, I can find a single stamp quickly. But this doesn't do justice to the year of issue or denomination or framing style at all.

Example
pp-dog-collie-xmas


ca-2004-perm-photo-album-fauna-animal-dog-collie-christmas-hat-flora-flower )flora?)
(what about the two partial cancels? The moose on the pictorial cancel and the circular date stamp (CDS) cancel?, another field in the database? How would one put that in a list only?

We want to, I hope, make this search-able online also, so good descriptions / words are very important.

This is a topical or thematic way of sorting and I think this would be the only way to do this but I am of course open to suggestions.

Animal = Fauna
Flower = Flora
More universal names I think.
But then not everyone will use fauna when searching for what they think of as an animal.

This is simialr to listing topical stamps on ebay or online. You have to think of what people will be searching for depending on where they are in the orld and their language.

We start with a large topic like human and work outwards as suggested by rallymanm but use a much larger list of standardized (hopefully, perhaps) topical names. Like ebay or a topical stamp web site does perhaps?

It is the words used here that are in question. Shortness of description is desirable for us lazy humans but perhaps not always attainable.

Also, as with the collie dog stamp above, we should keep in mind that their may be more than one descriptive word to be applied to each stamp.

To think of these 'names' of stamps to be searchable in a database is, I think, the way to think of it. So searching for dog would bring up all dog stamps, whether they are with a person or dressed like a reindeer (poor doggie) or have a cat with them.

In this part of the stamp 'number' or description, the readability of the number is less in question than the searchability and sortability of the name.

So, for sorting, how does one find a human with a dog. Search under dog or human? What comes first? Or should it matter? Should it be listed twice or three times or . . . ?

If we just try to attain a database and have it searchable by Google or some other search engine then full descriptive words are more important than the order they come in (I think).

So, if we have a category that is titled Dogs, clicking on that will bring up all the stamps / covers(?) / cancels(?) with dogs on them. Maybe, perhaps, if possible, sorted by other name after dog also. So, if we say lets put humans first in the name, then other animals, then any flora (trees, shrubs, flowers, plankton), then . . .

Instead of the Organizations or Companies I think using the word Sign would be better, and then followed by a description in words or numbers of the sign.

Also, I think Bee See (and other collectors) have mentioned to me that they try to collect only real photos of Canada so the word Photo-Canada-Halifax-Building could be used?

Keep in mind that there are some stamps where a photo from another country has been used. There is out there a stamp with a picture of a lady sitting in front of the Taj Mahal in India.My avatar is a cat in Japan (not evident from the photo, but still.)

So, priority or ordering descriptive terms listing most important / first to be listed in description first:

Human (people)
Nature
Animal (Fauna)
Flower (Flora)
Building
Art (painting, sculpture, photo, other)
Photo
Sign
Transport (airplane, car, boat, space ship)
Holiday or Occasion ? (Christmas, Hannukah, Easter, Birthday, anniversary, wedding)
Thing? (Food)
Colour (?)
Place name
Company name
Person's name(s) (?)
Animal's name(s)

Delcampe for one has an exhaustive list of topics. ebay is more dependent upon the lister's descriptive abilities.

Oh yeah, we have to say whether the stamp's orientation is vertical or horizontal as these are rectangular shaped stamps and the personalized photo can be either way.
Vertical = vert
Horizontal = horz

Are there enough stamps that we need to be so exhaustive in our own descriptions?

If you just said
ca-2004-album-horz-photo-dog-xmas-flower-hat

is that good enough? Will you have to make the search engine recognize that if someone searches for Christmas then also look for christmas and xmas and noel and . . .?

Or searching for dog will also search for chien (French) or other dog words?

sorry for typing so much. Too much to consider all at once. Lets just agree on a big universal basic starting at first and then worry about lists of names and databases or lists after.
Goo Night all.

Still awake . . .

There is the question what is better, a numbering system that is universal and understandable by most people,

or a way to entitle a stamp so that Googling it's name will bring it up and thus expose more people to stamp collecting, Canada personalized stamps as well as other stamps by the same name,

and that allows people who may only know or be looking for some of the description of the stamp to find it and it's website and picture and further info and links.

Same thinking here as for when listing a stamp to sell on ebay worldwide. Catalogue numbers are nice but not usable here most likely.

What language do we use? English I suppose, since we all speak it, but could other languages words be also used in the description or file name?

Should the word 'stamp' or 'cover' be used in the file name / description?

Should there just be a stamp number / name and then if a full description is needed that can be added as text on the web page / database / online list?

Wow Puzzler, an thorough read!

The only thing I can say is that for many Picture Postage the date of "issue" will remain unknown, as we have no idea who produced them. That is why I now put dates and/or "values" on mine (See Valois Train Station).

I think the numbering system should be based solely on frame design and photo topic(s) and a sequence of random order when a "new" find is made.

I bow to simplicity.

What about the 46c, 47c and No Value Indicated gold leaf frames? How to differentiate between them? Can't just call them 'gold' or 'gold leaves' can we? They are different.

I do not mind leaving the year off but if a complete database or list was made with other country's stamps also, then I would say use the year.

Simple is best and will get done faster and easier.

The picture postage I have myself are of dogs, cats, other animals, people, babies, children, signs (businesses , organizations, unknown), and then other.

Sorry everyone that I got carried away with it all last night. I had been thinking on this for a while but had not actually sat down and started to do it so that I could see how it actually worked in the real world.

OK - you guys have thought about this a lot more than I have. I was interested in a database kind of listing I could stick on my website with pictures so we and anyone else interested could get an idea of what other people are doing. Simple yet effective for us and anyone with our interests not a search able catalog that could be googled. If we like it then that should be OK with other folks - however many there may be. I have spent 3 days combing the internet and this site and come up with over 100 good pictures. I have sized them all to be real stamp size. I will add everyone's comments together and post here tomorrow what I think may work or at least may be a working draft. Cheers

Murray

OK Puzzler, the year does belong in, so in that case it can be the year the frame is introduced.

Interestingly, the Picture Postage stamps are considered "Permanent" even though they do not have the "P" symbol. I wonder if there will be a new design to reflect this soon?

rallymanm,
sorry for being slow getting back to you. I am just slow at this time of year. My sap is still down in my roots. Waiting for the spring thaw.

Yes, show us your hard work, be very interested. Sorry to go overboard on that. Simple is good.


Bee See,
Yes, I was wondering about the Permanent symbol also but I think the whole border will stay the same until they design a new type and they are not doing that as these are really great to begin with. Recognizable and people know them, why change?

When Canada goes to permanent US and Int stamps them they will change maybe, or when the Picture Postage can come in different types of denominations or permanent types.

I was thinking the year wouldn't be necessary with proper framing description but now I see it is a better idea, the original first issue date of a certain frame.

I had started off being inspired by Rod's database description.