Kelleher Sale 810 - A Couple Of Listing Issues

That quote from Wayne has me puzzled.
Accepting the idea of a certificate as a "Hey, it's our best guess and you should really have done the work" opinion would make it somewhat pointless right from the start.

If I sent a stamp for a certificate, I'd expect that the stamp is either:
-Correctly identified as a result with 99.9% certainty (can never rule out human error).
-Returned with "No opinion" as the result that the expert(s) could not agree.

I had actually contacted Kelleher about these lots before txstamps's post. Today I was informed that they have been withdrawn.

Early certs were mainly concerned with a correct identification of the item. Faults were not generally considered. Both the quality and the tools for both examination and repairs have improved over time. drkohler's comment re a no opinion cert. does not always mean a disagreement among the experts. Certs have always been opinions of the issuers.

That they were offered at all does not inspire great confidence. What if no one had contacted DFK. Did they think that buyers would not get an extension or submit on their own. Just odd.

They all mistakes. Last year, I pointed out to Warwick & Warwick that its set of Duke's 1889 Postage Stamps cigarette cards included stamps issued decades later. They made an adjustment to the text, as seen in the attached. Still sold for £100+.

https://www.warwickandwarwick.com/a...hived/341983

In the 1990s, an earlier version of the PSE put the names of each expertizer who signed off on their certs. I still have a few of these lying around, and when I'd see names like: Frajola, Mandel and Champagne on certain items I felt pretty good about it. Of course I knew these people, and knew their capabilities to some degree.

Even with expertizer names on certs, the casual buyer probably doesn't know who these people are anyway .... so, I agree that relying on the submitter to ascertain the quality of a cert is a problem.

Well the cover Txstamp posted just hammered for $1,000 and the 8R1E with the tears hammered for $8,500.

Haven't got to the painted ornaments piece yet.

*Edit* Lot 3262 (painted ornaments) was closed.

So, they were not withdrawn? Total BS to be kind about it.

Wow.....this thread was an eye-opener for me. This post has definitely made me more aware. Thank you for having this discussion.

Only the altered 1¢ Type IIIa was withdrawn. Someone is going to be upset when they realize they spent $1,000 to acquire a 1¢ Type II 1851 and a few 11's on cover.

Quite confusing. When Lot 3240 came up the auctioneer announced the opening bid but there was a notation with the description saying "Lot is Closed." OK, I thought, now they'll take it down. Instead the notation disappeared and the lot was hammered at $1K. I sent a note to DFK inquiring about this, but no response yet.

To Wayne Youngblood's point, some time ago I ran into a PSE cert (see below) for a 443 coil paste-up strip of four which patient was most decidedly not perf 10. The coil was perf 8.5. Maybe the "expertiser" cut corners and just checked the watermark; looked at the paste-up; agreed with whoever had submitted it 'cause perfs are so elementary, why bother; and returned to his or her scotch and soda. Sent the mess back and the embarrassed dealer refunded me pronto.

But from that day forward, when I took in something with a cert I look hard at the patient and try to understand why the agency issued the cert. Its never an idle exercise 'cause I am either gaining new knowledge or reinforcing prior lessons.

The above was an easy catch and I make no claims to being proficient, but Youngblood is right, unsettling as his point may be to many collectors.

I think some takeaway's here are -

* Absolutely get items expertized as appropriate

but ...

* Knowledge (your own) is power, and the more you can learn on your own, the better buying decisions you will be able to make down the road.

* When you get stuck, there are usually people available on this board, to help.

Regarding the Kelleher lots - if that cover really sold, then I hope the buyer sends it to the PF. I have to believe the PF would get that one correct.

The alleged 5A cover lot is marked CLOSED but without a sold price.

I know more than one person wrote to them about that lot. Hopefully they corrected the mistake.