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Collecting By Engraver

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Valued Member
Canada
67 Posts
Posted 01/16/2018   6:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add canadian to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks James for the temporary solution.
cNA
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Valued Member
Australia
437 Posts
Posted 01/16/2018   11:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jjarmstrong47 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree. Thanks James. It is great to see our concerns taken seriously and I will look forward to seeing where this goes in the future.
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Collecting postal history of WW2 in Italy, Chicago precancels and world-wide line engraved. http://www.engravedstamps.net
New Member
Canada
4 Posts
Posted 01/17/2018   09:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add james.bone to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My pleasure, additionally if you are interested in Canadian engravers here is a short blog post I recently wrote on the Yves Baril fonds here at Library and Archives Canada, which includes Baril's daily log books, commentaries on his work, autographed FDCs and some philatelic treasures discarded by Canadian Bank Note: https://thediscoverblog.com/2018/01...ives-canada/
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Valued Member
Australia
437 Posts
Posted 01/17/2018   5:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jjarmstrong47 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That is a very interesting article, James. Baril was a superb engraver but I still learned something new. I have only found two UN stamps attributed to him, the 1958 New York UN Building and the 1961 Hands holding the globe stamps. Is Baril's complete list accessible. Every stamp detail I find helps to make the database complete.

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Collecting postal history of WW2 in Italy, Chicago precancels and world-wide line engraved. http://www.engravedstamps.net
Valued Member
United Kingdom
257 Posts
Posted 01/18/2018   04:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add AKPhilately to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
James, I'm with jjarmstrong47 in that I would very much appreciate a complete list of Baril's work. Besides the two UN stamps jjarmstrong47 shows (btw, you (= jjarmstrong47) wrote the 1958 UN buildings stamp but showed the 1959 stamp. I only have the 1959 stamp in my database), I know of the 1959 UN Trusteeship Council stamp being also by Baril.

As for the eleven US stamps you mention, I only know of nine (29c and 35c Great Americans, Equestrian sports (4), Davis, Buffalo Soldiers and the diamond-shaped presidents stamp of '94).

You mention the Canadian Tire coupons in your blog. There are different types, so can you confirm it is the 1992 version of the portrait (shown here) which Baril engraved?



You're such a tease showing us the two pages from Baril's notebook, James. I, and I presume many others, will probably never get the chance to come to Canada and study it for ourselves. Do digital scans of the notebook exist, or has the text ever been transcribed? If so, would it please please please be possible to get a copy of it somehow?

As you will have gathered, both jjarmstrong47 and I (and others on this forum too) are always busy trying to preserve as much as knowledge as possible re those fantastic (stamp) engravers, so gaining an insight in Baril's daily thoughts and activities would greatly enhance our knowledge of him and his work.
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My stamp engravers website:
https://dutchproofs.blogspot.com/
Valued Member
Australia
437 Posts
Posted 01/18/2018   05:48 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jjarmstrong47 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Well, not much gets past your radar does it Adrian. Of course, it was 1959 but I had to check the database to make sure I hadn't made the mistake there. It was nudging 40 degrees C here while I was typing, one reason I was inside at the computer and not outside fixing the fence the sheep broke down. I think the heat either addled my brain or melted my fingers.
I agree that the workbook would be great reading. It's great that it exists still as I got the impression, reading the article that a lot of the things James had rescued were being thrown out.
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Collecting postal history of WW2 in Italy, Chicago precancels and world-wide line engraved. http://www.engravedstamps.net
New Member
Canada
4 Posts
Posted 01/18/2018   10:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add james.bone to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I will try to answer all of the above questions, though the response may be somewhat disjointed. My sources may have been inaccurate on some points as I was borrowing from previous research by archivists at LAC and the former Canadian Postal Archives.

From what I can tell, Baril's work is found on the following:

- UN Stamps: #69/#70, #73/#74, #75/#76, #106, #131/#132 (or 5 engravings for 9 issues; however I am not sure how involved Baril was on #75/#76 as the lettering was done by Donald Mitchell and I don't personally think the image looks like Baril's work -- so it could be 4 engravings for 7 issues). [Main source for this is the recently-deceased Jacques Nolet's "Yves Baril, le dernier de nos graveurs," found in Opus V from the Académie québécoise d'études philatéliques]. Nolet's work is very good if you can read French, but its listing is not complete as Baril was not yet retired when it was written. Interestingly Nolet does not list #105, but that could along with #75/#76 make 6 total engravings).

- US Stamps: #2185 (Thomas Jefferson), #2186 (Dennis Chavez), #2592 (Washington and Jackson), #2704? (Cabrillo), #2755 (Dean Acheson), engravings for #2756-#2759 (Sporting horses), #2816? (Dr. Allison Davis), #2818? (Buffalo Soldiers) -- so up to 11 engravings.

- Canadian Tire money: I believe that the engraving pictured was either done by Baril or heavily based on his work. We do not have much information on Canadian Tire here at LAC; however there is a very good Canadian Tire archival collection at the University of Western Ontario archives in London, Ontario (see: https://www.lib.uwo.ca/archives/acc...ection.html) and they may be able to furnish information on the engravings of the Canadian Tire Money coupons.

- Complete list of Baril's work will probably never be done by us (considering his bank notes, company coupons, labels and stocks and bonds engravings), but I imagine it could be possible for someone with an unreasonable level of persistence.

- Complete scans of the notebooks do not exist (yet), but for a cost you may be able to request reproductions of them as Baril assigned copyright to LAC when he donated them. To see the archival description of the notebooks, click here then click on "31 lower levels of description" to see each individual notebook. All but two of the notebooks are daily log books that list the date, job number or a description of the job and the number of hours worked. In conversation, Baril told me that he kept these logs to cover his own butt in case the boss thought he wasn't producing enough (he was always a quality over quantity sort of guy). The other two notebooks (called "Cash" and "Timbres") are commentaries on his own work, one of which was kept at the office while the other was kept at home (guess which one shares a more candid view of Baril's opinion on some of the stamp issues he worked on). You can request reproductions here: http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/reprod...equests.aspx

- As for the rescued philatelic treasures found in the album, Baril told me that CBN was doing a clean-up and was tossing out a lot of reference photographs, collages and essays and that some of it was given to him by John Mash and some of it he personally rescued. As such, most of the philatelic material in the album pre-dates Baril's time at CBN but he also added to the album over time with some of his own work and other things related to CBN.

- Some of the album and other pages of the commentary notebooks were digitized previously for purposes of monetary appraisal and certification of cultural property. You can view these images in this Google Drive folder but please do not reproduce these images for publication without contacting me first for copyright and citation information.
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Edited by james.bone - 01/18/2018 11:12 am
Valued Member
Australia
437 Posts
Posted 01/18/2018   4:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jjarmstrong47 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks James. I do have a query though. I have the Dean Atcheson #2755 stamp listed as by Czeslaw Slania. My listing comes from the Heindorffus site which used Slania's workbooks as a reference.

http://www.slaniastamps-heindorffhu...edStates.htm
I know there was an instance where Hipschen put his name to a Slania stamp as there was antipathy to using overseas engravers on American stamps so I'm wondering what the story is here.

edit. Sorry! The link didn't work. It does now.
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Collecting postal history of WW2 in Italy, Chicago precancels and world-wide line engraved. http://www.engravedstamps.net
Edited by jjarmstrong47 - 01/18/2018 10:20 pm
New Member
Canada
4 Posts
Posted 01/19/2018   08:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add james.bone to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My source for US #2755 is The Canadian Connection, Vol. 7 Num. 2 Issue 26 (June 1, 1993) [ISSN 1195-0064]. I don't have any other US reference material ready at hand right now.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
3207 Posts
Posted 01/19/2018   7:19 pm  Show Profile Check Nells250's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Nells250 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Picked this up today, Italy #1407, sharing with YOU! :-)

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
3207 Posts
Posted 01/19/2018   7:21 pm  Show Profile Check Nells250's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Nells250 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Luxembourg #321

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Valued Member
Germany
22 Posts
Posted 01/27/2018   10:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamp_nut to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi all,
I am new to the forum. I have an almost complete collection of Slania's stamps and I have been toying with the idea of expanding it to include other engravers. But my tiny mind only considered contemporary engravers, such as: Mörck, Albuisson, Naszarkowski and a few others. When I stumbled across this thread I was blown away! Such beautiful stamps. Needless to say, I have now started to collect them and am still waiting for the first ones to arrive in the post.

I would like to thank nethryk, lithograving, perf14 and all the others who have, with their posts, encouraged me to open up a new facet of my stamp collecting.

Meanwhile, I would like to show some of the engraved/recess printed stamps that I already have. I am pretty sure that the following stamps have not been displayed on this thread before.

Machin pre-decimal high values issued in 1969. Engraved by Robert Godbehear. I much prefer this set to the later decimal currency issue, as I think these are aesthetically more pleasing to the eye (especially the 1 pound value).







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Valued Member
Germany
22 Posts
Posted 01/28/2018   07:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamp_nut to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
And today something a little different from that which has been shown before on this thread. The following stamps are from my "Germania" collection. These four high-values are the only ones of the "Germania" stamp series to have been recess-printed.

The 1 Mark value is from the 1900 issue, inscribed "Reichspost", and depicts the main post office in Berlin at that time. Designed by C. Frenzel; steel-plate engraving; engraver unknown.


The 2, 3 and 5 Mark values are from a later issue (1905), inscribed "Deutsches Reich", but printed during WW2 - the so-called "War-Time printings" (1914/15). These printings are characteristically unclear/blurry in appearance due to the inferior materials used in manufacture (as opposed to the clear/sharp images of the "Peacetime printings". These were, in contrast to the 1 Mark value, engraved on copper. This gave the printed image a softer look, which was a deliberate design decision at the time.

2 Mark value, from a painting by Anton von Werner, depicting (symbolically) the unification of north and south Germany. Designed by S. Lipinsky; engraved by W. Roese.


3 Mark value, from a painting by William Pape, depicts the unveiling of the Kaiser Wilhelm I monument in Berlin. Engraved by W. Roese.


5 Mark value, from part of a painting by William Pape, depicts the celebrations during the grounding of the Empire. Engraved by W. Roese.
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Valued Member
United States
17 Posts
Posted 01/28/2018   10:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Stamp Nut
Thank you those German stamps are beautiful, and thank you for the historical notes.

Bacchus
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Valued Member
Germany
22 Posts
Posted 01/30/2018   3:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stamp_nut to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That's great. I'm glad that you like them. I enjoy collecting them.
For today, here are two beauties engraved by Jules Piel. I just love these French Red Cross issues.


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Edited by stamp_nut - 01/30/2018 3:16 pm
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