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Ribbed Paper In Washington Franklin Series

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Posted 08/21/2015   02:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add lukusw to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I know the Continental banknotes used ribbed paper, but did it exist in future series? Is so, does anyone know how late it was used? The stamp below is a routine Sc#499 but the back looks similar to a couple photos of ribbed paper I've seen.



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Posted 08/21/2015   09:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Al E. Gator to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There have been certificates from expertizing services for laid or ribbed paper on Washington-Franklins. The authenticity for laid paper has been questioned. There have been articles in the USSS journals refuting the existence of laid paper on the series. Those articles, I believe, do allude that some random ribbed paper may occur in the series, but that proof of laid or ribbed paper being ordered or supplied to the BEP has not been demonstrated. Scott does not recognize that enough proof exists for listing either paper variety, as I recall from reading past articles. Hopefully, others may have more information that can be added here. Also, I have examples that look like what you have posted that certainy look like either laid or ribbed paper.
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Posted 08/21/2015   12:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cfrphoto to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ribbed paper exists, but it is not a recognized production variety. It can be found in flat plate stamps even into the 1930 to 1940 era. Some Second Bureau and early Washington/Franklin are on fairly thin paper making it possible to see ribbing with about 1 millimeter spacing, if present, as lines in watermark fluid. The "laid paper" reported a few years ago in Linn's was ribbed (or ridged) paper thin enough to show the ribbing in watermark fluid. A later stamp like RW1 the first hunting permit stamp, if ribbed will not show lines in watermark fluid.

I believe that paper with laid lines spaced about 2 millimeters apart exists. However, it is likely similar to a stitch watermark occurring where the pieces of the wire belt are joined. If wires are missing in one direction a laid pattern could result. Fourdrinier paper making machines use the belt to form the paper web from slurry. Even the listed 1861 laid paper varieties may be similar. There is no reason to believe that laid paper was used for the actual production of stamps. Some laid paper essays exist, but the appearance of the laid lines is well defined and crisp compared to those seen on the 1861 issue (or the Washington/Franklin issue).

Clark
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Edited by cfrphoto - 08/21/2015 12:25 pm
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Posted 10/26/2016   4:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add patrasf to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi folks.New here.Need to figure out how to attach photos.

I have a 1 cent B.Franklin on real RIBBED PAPER.Not on Laid Paper.RIBBED PAPER you can have diagonal lines, not only horizontal or vertical.

So here is my 1cent B.Franklin, you can see the diagonal lines on the texture of the paper and down 2 samples of RIBBED PAPER.If you consult the site here up, you will find all types of papers.Again this is not LAID PAPER.





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Edited by patrasf - 10/26/2016 10:39 pm
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Posted 10/26/2016   10:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
patrasf, welcome to the forum. Your link is not working for me,

Peter
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Posted 10/27/2016   12:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cfrphoto to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like wove paper. Paper that shows ridges on both diagonals and also vertical is sometimes called linen paper after the pattern from the dandy roll.
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Posted 10/27/2016   01:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add essayk to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
patrasf - welcome!

Judging by the pictures you have a stamp on textured paper. Some banking devices (check cancellers) were responsible for leaving stamps looking textured. Other devices could as well. The hard part is going to be to demonstrate that this texture pattern was used by the paper manufacturers who supplied the paper for the 1c of 1887. Do you have a corroborating example?


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Edited by essayk - 10/27/2016 01:32 am
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Posted 10/27/2016   08:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cjpalermo1964 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The original post here is misleading unless each sentence is read separately. The OP has provided the front scan of the patient, but two generic paper images from the "dreamstime" stock photo site. The paper images are NOT from the stamp but rather represent the OP's suggestion of what he is seeing on the back.

We cannot further evaluate this claim until front and back true scans of the stamp, at 600 dpi, are posted.

If the paper image squares were from the stamp, then I would agree with Clark.

Chris
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Posted 10/27/2016   09:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cjpalermo1964 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
In addition, given the unusual cropping to exclude the perfs and paper edges, of what appears to be a valuable unused stamp, I question whether the OP genuinely possesses this stamp. I await scans of the full front and back, and until then, this looks like a troll.

The stock nature of the paper images is betrayed by the white color of both, which appears far too bright for a stamp of this age.

Chris
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Posted 10/27/2016   6:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cfrphoto to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ribbing has been found on occasional flat plate US stamps produced from about 1875 through the about 1935. No one has pinpointed a cause and there is no consensus to declare ribbed soft paper a variety. When the Continental Bank Note Company used some hard paper that was ribbed, some supporting evidence exists in an unpublished paper study based on surviving paper order records. Print quality also improved suggesting that the change to ribbed paper may have been intentional. No so for later ribbed paper examples.
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Posted 01/20/2017   6:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add patrasf to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi peoples,
I'm back.Here is the two photos showing MY STAMP, as someone here think differently,and I believe maybe is kind of ribbed or the printing, hard to say.I bought few to compare here 2 photos of my stamp.
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Posted 01/20/2017   6:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add patrasf to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
photos
I have hard time, sorry for this.

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Posted 01/20/2017   6:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add patrasf to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
try again

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Posted 01/20/2017   6:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Pastraf, not much visible on pictures. Is it possible to scan the stamps?


Peter
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Posted 01/20/2017   6:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add patrasf to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
First I thought is Woved paper, and it looks like, but why the lines on the first side, woved paper normally is looks like soft paper and at the back you see kind of pattern. I think it will remain a mystery or pay a appraisal and have a specialist to look at.The stamp is not the most beautiful exemples,but still, is different from any I saw and have in my possession.More photos and information, justcollecting.com
The store name is Grace, (wife name) and go on Blog. Best regards,and again not the best taking photos.
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Posted 01/20/2017   6:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add patrasf to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Peter, I did but when is to save my picture is more then 200 wherever.
So,I try again, but if not justcollecting is very good photos to see.
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