Help Me Figure Out 64 Or 65...

"PSE Certified 65":

There has to be a way to tell them apart.
I have gathered dozens of 64-65 pics tonight,
and they all look identical. Everytime you
find one with a different shade of color,
you think "ahhhhh, there it is", but then
you find another certified as the opposite
Scott number with that same shade. Every
shade I have found so far certified in a 64,
I have found a pic of the same exact shade
certified in a 65. :frustration:

Try Siegel auctions, Past Sale #968. Lots 71-74. Althought the color viewed may vary slighyly from actual, at least the scans were all made with the same equipment. This mighy help to get a better perspective on the relative difference.

Great scan !

Most of the 64s I am finding are pale and 'washed out',
just like the April 16 cover. Light, bright paper...
Another 64:

Pigeon blood 64:
Edit:
Wow... this one looks identical to the Dec 6 cover.

I need to find an expert and have these checked out.
I am excited that there might be at least 1 #64 here.
I don't think Dad would have been offered such a large
sum for a 65... Unless the person making the offer
had more money than stamp knowledge. IIRC it was a dealer.

Amos Publishing has a color guide specifically geared to this stamp (along with two or three others) They use color chips (They are called Munsell chips). I bought one of these guides, and believe me, using them is no picnic.(The price is over 40 dollars) Just when you say aha, that's it, you see another color chip that seems to match.

I think the only real solution is the expertise of someone who can separate the colors. And who have access to examples in the assigned colors.

ratio... try this guy..
http://www.stampexpertizing.com/ William Weiss. I have actually met him... (BALPEX) he is very knowledgeable, not as expensive as the others (he also does work for all the others). You have some incredible covers.. in the last two days some of you guys have posted covers that make me drool.

Nice covers, I would help but a little color blind..I can tell you the first one is the dark of all the colors.

Thank you for the link to Mr Weiss.

I contacted him via email to ask if I could send him the 3 cover
and have the $5 verbal opinion (x3), and then if one or more was
truly a 64, we would upgrade those covers to the full-on photo cert
service... I anxiously await his response.

ratio411
you are welcome.
just remember me in your will.

Someone had to have told Dad what these things were.
I know he got the hobby passed down to him by family,
and that he also spent much of his youth hanging around
stamp clubs, shows, and dealers. Point is Dad was half
blind in general and was born SEVERELY color blind. He
had to have had serious guidance on these. I see color
perfectly normal, and I am thoroughly confused.

Pinks are really tough to tell from digital images, I know it sounds silly, but you really need to see them in person.

There's 3 pinks:

Pink (Scarce)
Rose Pink (Uncommon)
Pigeon Blood Pink (Very scarce)

Basically, Pinks all look like pink bubblegum, that's the easiest way I can describe them. Pink and Rose pink are somewhat easy to discren once you've seen enough. True Pigeon Blood Pink is very distinctive, it's got an intense pink color that has a slightly bluish hue to it and once you've seen a few they are quite easy to identify.

Of the 3 that you imaged, the center one looks like it's got the closest shot to being a rose pink, the bottom one is a rose, and the top one looks rose to me, although if it was used in Dec of 1861 it would put it in about the right period.

This page on 3c 51s will give you an idea about how tough it can be to tell shades from digital images:

http://home.comcast.net/~3cent1851/color.htm

These are all easier to decipher in person. At least for me anyway!

All of the pink shades (64) were in the very early printings (Aug 1861). BEP released the pink 248 in 1894. One of the problems they had was corlor variation due to contamination on the plates. The color was change to a carmine lake and later to carmine because of these problems. I wonder if that is the reason for the changes from pink to rose in the 64 and 65.