Is Sniping Fair?

This is off-topic, but this is what happens when you post in the middle of a time change from savings time to standard time here:


Currently on my screen, one of Rod's post appears immediately above my first post and commenting on my 2nd post. It looks like he is a prophet! It actually should follow my 2nd post. Funny things happen in the middle of a time change.

All the recent posts are out of order on my screen, I assume because of the time adjustment in my time zone. I also assume that in an hour, it will all be back to normal.

Now I'm really scratching my head!

k, time to go to sleep.

If I go to room auction, can I snipe ?

This an ebay invention I believe.
If one doesn't like sniping, go to a normal online auction ending like Delcampe. There, it's just like a room auction.
[Unless the rules have been changed recently-]

I employ a wide variety of bidding strategies, which do including sniping. Sometimes I snipe, sometimes I don't, depending on the auction item, the time, and other circumstances. This is an interesting topic that comes up multiples times on many stamp boards.

This time, however, I find myself scratching my head a little.

For example --



The auction ends when it is scheduled, and the highest bidder at the close of the auction gets to purchase the item. What is dishonest about a bid coming in the last few seconds, and what rule is being bent? If the speed limit is 35, am I bending the rules by driving 34 or 35? There are auction sites that will list auctions about to close. If I happen to have an interest in one of those auctions, am I suppose to refrain from bidding because it is somehow "dishonest" or I have somehow "bent some rule". Why is this auction site encouraging me to be "dishonest" and "bend the rules"? I must have misunderstood something, because I'm really scratching my head here.

Different auctions may have different rules. What is this "true meaning of an auction system" other than what is defined by the auctioneer?



As some have pointed out, this tends to be an opinion, and I openly accept that this is a valid opinion. Even though I may disagree with Rod regarding whether sniping is fair or not, I thought his posts were thought-provoking and made good points.

Here's my experience for thought. The first time I was sniped, that was my initial reaction -- not fair. I realized I also had the same reaction the first time someone outbid me (well before the auction end) -- not fair. I had to ask myself a simple question -- is it really not fair, or am I simply annoyed? Since then, I've always told myself, congratulations to the person who sniped me, or who out-sniped me. Win/lose, I'm a much happier bidder now. The high bidder got to buy the lot, and that's what the auction rules state.

Just my opinion...

k

I apologize if it sounded like I was jumping on some of you in the above post. It is not my intention to discourage posting of opinions. I'm just trying to understand some of these opinions, and hopefully to appreciate differing opinions.

I don't think one can compare ebay with a live auction. There is no sniping at a live auction. [unless the rules have changed, I haven't been to a live auction for over 5 years !]

I remember having a number of excellent bidding wars on Delcampe in the past. An extended period on the time limit makes for a much more exciting conclusion.

It would be a shame to see sniping here at SCF...except to use Bobby's idea for Donation auctions !

Londonbus1

I feel that comment is not in keeping with what we are about. I was quite taken aback.

Some are griping about sniping on this thread, it's about opinions and no harm done.

In my opinion, it would be better to have both Sniping and a time extension....that is my opinion. Others may disagree, it is their right and I accept that.

But to state their will be rules against griping does not appear to be very forum-friendly.

Londonbus1.....this was an opinion, not a gripe.

Doesn't work. Yahoo auctions had it and sellers NEVER used it because the buyers didn't like it. Buyers don't like being jerked around with ending times, when they would see the auto-extension on a listing they would move on to one that didn't have it.

The answer for ebay is this....

No timer when there is under six hours left. All the listing (or the ebay API) would say is "Less than six hours left." So when you stumble on one, you don't know if it's got 5HRS 59MIN or 10 seconds. Happy sniping.

I understand the view that sniping may be a little underhand, but on ebay, you can't really complain about being outbid by a sniper. Part of the way ebay works is that automatic bids will be made up to the highest amount you have said you are willing to bid. If someone bids above your limit, you lose the auction. If you don't want to lose the auction, put in a higher upper limit. Its really annoying to be sniped, but some you win, some you lose. Auctions are a gamble. This is my opinion as an ebay seller (not of stamps) an ebay buyer, (of stamps and other stuff) and, I confess, very occasional ebay sniper.

To me, sniping is like playing a game where some players have better skills or at least more experience with what the rules allow.

I like playing without following some other's guidelines as to what I should be doing or not doing. Sometimes my way doesn't work.

I am aware that sometimes prices get artificially inflated (or seem to) because someone really wants an item for some unfathomable reason. Sometimes I want an item for unfathomable reasons. At that time the rules seem to blur, my spending limits seem to be forgotten and I seem to have activated certain parts of my brain that are feeding me pleasure chemicals and that is all that matters.

I think some people are more sensitive or attuned to this way of thinking than others are or care to be.

Having the option existing to be able to choose to snipe or not as on ebay and other sites or even the option to play at the extension of auction ending time as on Delcampe are ways to allow the user of those systems to engage in a process that is similar to the culture around them and to fit in but also to allow them to activate their thinking along certain lines.

However, just having the option available to choose one way or the other doesn't dictate whether one chooses either way. A person can always choose their own way. If that way doesn't achieve the goals of that person is that because the goals were more or less aligned with certain beliefs or not? Were the expectations I had realistic or not, given the existing rules?

Both ebay and Delcampe (to choose two examples from many) want to make money but they also exist in different cultures with similar but slightly different morals or perhaps ways of thinking about certain situations. They both have rules or guidelines existing that are designed to seem pleasant to and acceptable by the societies they are in.

So, depending on how we choose to think, have been trained to think or have chosen to copy other's thinking around us in order to fit in and survive affects how we choose our goals and the processes we feel are appropriate to achieve those goals.

I think that this topic comes close to addressing an issue, or thought, I have about ebay.

It is my understanding of the rules of the auction that the amount increases by a set increment over the previous bid. Suppose the auction is at say, 10 dollars. Further suppose that I really want the stamp and I bid 5000 dollars. I will only pay the increment over the 10 dollars. No one in their right mind is going to outbid 5000 dollars, and if they do, more power to them. Am I interpreting the rules correctly, or am I on the hook for the 5000 bid?

I know before hand that this is a dirty underhanded thing to do. But just say I do it---is there any way I can get hurt, except perhaps being banned from e bay.

Rohumpy, that is how ebay works. You can bid on a lot that starts at 99p (or cents..!). You can say that the highest you want to go is £5000. If no-one else bids, you will win at 99p. If someone else, at any point in the auction up to the last second, bids, say, £4000. you will win at £4010. (or whatever the increment, I'm not sure what it is at that price). The only way to avoid sniping that I can see would be a "sealed bids" auction, where all bids remain secret until the auction ends and then the highest bid wins. In the end, the highest bid wins, those are the only rules for any auction, live or online.

rohumpy, your risk is that someone else uses a similar strategy, with a slightly lower ridiculous bid.

I never used a Yahoo auction, so I can't comment on any firsthand experience with options for extending, or not.

I suppose it can be argued whether Wensy's model works, but every auction on Wensy has an auto-extension.

Wow, on and on it goes ! I don't snipe..usually I just submit my best bid..what an items worth to me and let it fly !!

Firstly I'd like to thank all of you for your reasoned and thoughtful responses.

As a buyer I love sniping, as a seller I don't. To replicate a live auction, all these sites have to do is end the auction when there have been no bids for 30 seconds, just as a live auction does. The live auctioneer will say going, going, gone or something similar and the sale is concluded when the bidding is exhausted. Live auctions don't end at 9.05.45am, do they?

While we can benefit from the major auction sites, they operate for their own benefit (and they do it anonymously too) as most large businesses do.

Thanks again for your thoughts.