157 Tough Secret Mark Verify? More Added!

This has a rough fancy cancel over the secret mark, but I tried to make a scan that might show it. Can anyone help. I believe it has a secret mark on wove paper, Scott 157.

The color looks red brown to me making it 146. I have a 135, 146, and 157 I can post pix of this evening. The secret mark is so hard to see the pros will go on color alone.

Edit: I'm looking at it on an iPhone, zoomed out it looks less red and more brown. I'll suspend the call until Russ looks at it and/or I can look at it on the big screen.

I agree with otto, 146 red brown


146


157

Okay I am just going to rip all my stamps out of my albums and go through them with you all. I don't seem to have any in the right place. Maybe I will simply collect overrun countries. Wait too many varieties. Nevermind I am getting out my knitting.

Thank you both for helping, I can't repay this kind of help, but I will try to get it down so I don't send you both off the deep end, My sincere gratitude. - Jeff

Jeff,

You're not alone -- I am having the same difficulties determining both color and paper types.

If you don't mind, I'd like to piggyback on your thread and get confirmation on two of my 2c Jacksons.

I think the first one is a #146 and the second a #157 but I'd like to hear what others think.

Steve

And I thought this was 157. but not by your colors. Oh Help.

I have not seen him signed on but the stamp god Russ and his angel of mercy Otto are sure to be close by.

The secret mark can be deceptive on this issue and color is the best way to distiguish the National and Continental. The National (146) is always noticeably reddish. The color is red brown in shades from pale to dark. The Continental (157) colors are brown, dark brown, dark reddish brown, and yellowish brown. The dark reddish brown, IMO is slightly orangish.
Steve, I believe that both stamps are 146 with the first being a paler shade (but not totally pale) and the other being a dark red brown.
Barb, I believe 157 medium brown. The 157 I posted is a dark brown shade.

From all of us, thank you Russ.

I'll second that sentiment!

Last, but ... thanks again.

So I was all set Friday night to reply with the following line up of stamps:



and yet, the more I looked at it, the more the stamp 3rd from the left looked more brown and more like its neighbor on the end, and I'm thinking, hmm, maybe it's a 157 after all. And when I looked at the secret marks, I was thinking more and more I had it wrong.

And then I got out the actual stamps and looked at them together, and I was reminded quite forcefully that the an image is not the thing. If it were, I could just collect scans of stamps and save lots of money. I put all four stamps in the scanner the next morning and scanned them all at one time and came up with this line up:



The 135s are easy, they have grills. The 146 looks much more like those than the 157 on the end.

Here's a 4800 dpi detail of the secret mark. Until I made the rescan, I was getting more and more convinced I made mis-id. Until I looked at stam damp!



There's a moral in there, somewhere.

Otto, Very nice scans. I think the one identified as 146 is 157 just a lighter shade of brown. It lacks the reddish tint and seem to have the secret mark. The secret mark in this issue can be difficult to ID. There are many 157 that do not show the secret mark.

If I cant do it from here it will only be because of the color. Thank you Russ

Thanks, Russ. Kind of ironic that on a design where people say ignore the mark and look at the color, it's the mark that provides the strongest clue in this instance. I can stop staring at this sucker and changing my mind every day and just start shopping for a 147. But given that I have two 135s and two 157s--do I have to buy two?

oh please I am having enough trouble with one and you want to enter into twosies?