China : Script : Limited For Use In Nth East.

Getting to the end of my Chiana collection,
I have these rotters which look confusing
but I have spent hours on the tongs so I may be tired.
Can readers offer opinions on where they belong please?

These overprints look similar for Nth East Provinces,
Sinkiang, and Szechwan
I don't want to mount on the wrong page.

Any tips on subtle script change?
Thanks.

I gotta tell you Rod, I wish we were on different time frames, I love checking out these old China overprints, but I see them when my wife (sorry mine isn't virtual) is telling me "bedtime" and by the time I see them in the morning someone has figured them out. This is why I need to retire, so I can reverse my sleeping habits.
Great looking stamps.

In the Scott catalog near the end of the Republic of China (ROC) listings under the subsection Sinkiang:

#107 10c violet (no secret mark), issued 1933-1934

below issued in 1944
#168 $1 rose lake
#169 $1 dull green

I'll let you figure out the SG numbers.

Right.
There is something very amiss here.
If it is Sinkiang Martyr's issue of 1933
the overprint is nothing like is shown on my issues.
This opt was not used till 1942
and no martyr's issues were overprinted then.

The catalog entry for the Sinkiang Martyrs issue with no secret mark (catalog name not given to protect the guilty):


Your 10c stamps appears to be the early issue (no secret mark). Below are the entries for the overprint on the later issue (with secret mark, watermarked and unwatermarked):


The catalog seems to indicate that 10c stamp with the secret mark on unwatermarked paper was never overprinted this way.

Catalog entry for the Sinkiang overprints on Sun Yat-Sen definitive:

Look at the 2nd character from the right (disregard font style/size). I've circled it in blue below.


For Szechwan(Sichuan), both the 2nd and 3rd characters from the right will be different. But for most other areas this 5-character overprint format, it will only be the 2nd character from the right that is different. So in general, examining the 2nd character will be sufficient to determine region. Do make me go through the exceptions...

The characters for Sinkiang (at least, as used in these overprints) are



though the 'proper' characters for Sinkiang/Xinjiang are



Any more provinces you need while we're at it?

The characters for Szechuan/Sichuan are

Thanks for putting up with me guys.
Goodness what a headache that was, it's good to see the back of those.

khj: I am going for the martyr as scott 143 because
the perf is 13.5 x 13 (SG126)

the other 2 are SG233 and SG234 which could mean anything
in a stupid SG simplified cat.
I wasn't thinking straight, I should have dug out
the very early SG 1960 version catalogue, that
is a lot easier and gives a critical point
that the OPT on the sun yat sen is slightly larger than the
martyrs.

All my chinese album mounted (phew!)


...and this is for Jeff only.

If you think chasing chinese opts is fun
try finding this one Jeff
(it is not a trick quastion either)

If you look at the left-hand black character in this overprint, you'll see it's the same as the second character of the proper form of Sinkiang. Now, of course, knowing that the right hand black character is pronounced 'Meng' and is short for 'Meng-gu' or Mongolia, the rest is simple ...

Shhh! Tony.
that's for Jeff.

I've finished all my chinese ID, and mounted them.
I'm taking a rest for a few days, hang the stamps.
Gonna get on my bike and go for a ride...

Dont give up on me. bad day here at work and tomorrow I have to go to Vermont for a funeral. gone pretty much all day, but I will get it. Thanks Rod.

You might want to reconsider. Within a set, yes, you can use perforation to distinguish between varieties. But because there are many unlisted perforation varieties/combinations, it is not a reliable first criteria to distinguish between the 2 main overprinted Sinkiang martyrs issues. Instead, use the secret mark first; then if there is a secret mark, check the watermark and then the perforation.

1st Martyrs issue (1933, 1938, 2 basic sets usually categorized by difference in overprint) -- no secret mark, normally perf 14, 2 types of overprints (1938 overprint produced in Shanghai)

2nd Martyrs issue (1941-1945, 2 basic sets usually categorized by presence/absence of watermark) -- secret mark, check watermark, then check perforation

The reason I assigned the 10c stamp as Scott #107 is because it had no secret mark. If it had a secret mark, then I would have assigned it #143.

I am open to correction from you or anybody else on this in case I have misunderstood the catalog. But the way the catalog is arranged by secret mark is also consistent with what I have seen in my collection (taken from memory since my China collection is archived) for these Martyr overprints for the other provinces/regions.

I see,
marvelous Info khj.
I have printed out the text, and placed it on page
for when I get a suitable dedicated china catalogue.
Until then ID will remain open.
Cheers.

Rodney, finally fished out Chan to see what he has to say.

The 10c Martyrs is quite straightforward: must be the Peking Print, due to the absence of the Secret Mark. Chan also illustrates the Shanghai overprint (although this isn't found on the 10c).

The Sun Yat Sen types, however, are very deep waters indeed. Chan distinguishes three overprints (one issued at Tihwa, one in East Szechuan, and the third not specified), and five types of paper.

Chan? Tony
readily available? price?
sounds like a good book to read.
Thanks for going to the trouble to find that
for me, appreciated.