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UK 1835 Stampless Cover Info Please

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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
3211 Posts
Posted 10/21/2011   6:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe "RW Alderman" for Right Worshipful Alderman?
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Nigel
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
2277 Posts
Posted 10/21/2011   6:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nitrolures to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nigel- That actually makes good sense as Worksop Nottingshire being a large locale and that would be the right place for the address location. basically deciphered some interesting items before but I believe this is some really poor penmanship (or feather perhaps). Thanks to all for taking the time to take a second look.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
2277 Posts
Posted 10/21/2011   9:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nitrolures to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Did a little serching on Right Worshipful Alderman and unfortunatly it seems the term was fairly losely used with Right Worshipful being attached to many titles.
Still curious as to which proper historical society/ museum this would best reside in. Not that I think its a Holy Grail but still deserves a proper home rather than my stockbook.
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Pillar Of The Community
Germany
1714 Posts
Posted 10/22/2011   08:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add scotzm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ok... let's get it into perspective. Sorry if I seem pedantic
The top line is always the SENDER'S location and the date..
Bottom left is always the SENDER's name.

The Solte/Nolte is part of the recipients address... more likely to be a town or County

So...top line reads "London July ten 1837".
Bottom line left is Russell's signature.

Recipients name is something like "Jas (James) Hilderwain" at first look... the second last letter of his name has a dotted "i" for sure. Find some other example of his writing and seen how he formed his words
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Edited by scotzm - 10/22/2011 08:22 am
Pillar Of The Community
Germany
1714 Posts
Posted 10/22/2011   08:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add scotzm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Someone mentioned "Worksop, Notts" which seems good. I was working on Ruislip or Worksop for location.

...and of course it should read JUNE ten 1837. Sorry.
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Edited by scotzm - 10/22/2011 08:36 am
Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
3211 Posts
Posted 10/22/2011   08:48 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"London June Ten 1837" seems reasonable although it's a strange form for a British date.
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Nigel
Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
1356 Posts
Posted 10/22/2011   08:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampgal to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Scotzm, we like pedantic!
I was going to suggest a thread to discuss deciphering older covers. Tips, advice, internet resources. You obviously have a lot of experience, as do others on the forum, it would be an interesting read.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
2277 Posts
Posted 10/22/2011   10:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nitrolures to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Scotzm great work and I can't thank you enough/ If in fact June 10 1837; it is just before the Accession to the throne of Queen Victoria (June 20 1837). One could imagine the politics and correspondences that must have been rushing throughout the UK at the particular time.
My searches on Hilderwain, and the likes comes up with no significant results.
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Pillar Of The Community
Germany
1714 Posts
Posted 10/22/2011   3:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add scotzm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"If in fact June 10 1837"?? For sure it has that date on the Free mark so no if about it
It is 1837 and is Lord DooDah's signature for sure. He would have been at the Home Office at that time I believe so would have been involved in all police and security matters.
The recipient, though nice to know, is relatively unimportant. Might have been on some small matter or constituency business but the piece is written in the hand of someone who went on to be Prime Minister (twice) so is highly collectable to many interested groups.
Glad to have helped.

Nigelc said ""London June Ten 1837" seems reasonable although it's a strange form for a British date." This is normal for that time. Feb twenty three 1839... July eleven 1838... that sort of format Words for month and day plus figures for year. Maybe the "th" as in tenth had not been invented
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Edited by scotzm - 10/22/2011 3:59 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
2277 Posts
Posted 10/22/2011   4:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nitrolures to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I was so focused on the writting I didn't even see the june 10th on the stamp itself. Should have looked at the big picture a little better me thinks.
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Pillar Of The Community
Germany
1714 Posts
Posted 10/23/2011   4:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add scotzm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Closer look at the FREE mark will indicate it was posted in the evening mail... the two rings show that. Single ring for the morning postings.
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Pillar Of The Community
Germany
1714 Posts
Posted 10/26/2011   11:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add scotzm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Had a look around at FREE marks on sale. Found this...




Asking price... $699 (USD). I don't think I'd pay $6 never mind 699. It has little philatelic value as far as I can see. NO visible FREE mark. More than a bit tattered and torn. Beats me!
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Pillar Of The Community
Germany
1714 Posts
Posted 10/27/2011   09:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add scotzm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
re Abercromby FREE front. Post Office Directory shows the recipient Adam Stewart lived at 38 Howe Street in 1833.

In the same 1833-34 report was this...
"Representations having been made of the time occupied by the LETTER CARRIERS in the DELIVERY of their LETTERS through the City, the inconvenience has been ascertained to be in a great measure, if not entirely, attributable to the delays experienced by the Carriers at hall doors, owing to servants not answering the bells, and in some cases, by the servants not being provided with money to pay the postage. Instructions have been issued to the Letter Carriers, to rap or ring at each hall door twice, pausing an instant. The application of the Carrier, therefore, cannot be mistaken ; and the Public are earnestly requested to aid the Postmaster-General in his Grace's anxiety to expedite the general delivery of the correspondence, by obliging servants to answer immediately the Carrier's application, and to have the servant previously provided with sufficient sums to discharge their demands."
My servants never seem to answer the doorbell to postmen either
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
2277 Posts
Posted 10/27/2011   1:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nitrolures to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
So if that is worth 699 mine should fetch a mere 2500 give or take--lol. I agree in perspective that realistic value should be far far less but if there is only 1 of any item it can be rediculous what someone will pay. I've tried Uk National archives, Oxford library , and several others to see if interested but because it doesn't fall into a specific type of document they are not particularly interested. I may post on ebay for an outrageous price just to see but I think a proper auction house in the UK would be best to sell this one.
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Pillar Of The Community
Germany
1714 Posts
Posted 10/28/2011   07:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add scotzm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have found another signed RUSSELL for sale just now. "Signature cut from a document" £150. This is from a reputable dealer in England.
Your front is signed, dated and has philatelic worth. With proper research and write up, your free frank front would interest philatelists and autograph collectors. Prices vary... Gladstone £150 for instance. These guys wrote a lot and made full use of their FREE postings so there might be lots more out there... some more than others of course. I'd say your front is worth between 80-150 pounds in the UK but possibly more in the USA where maybe anything written by a "LORD" might attract more attention.
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