Watermarks

Common!

Cheers

sorry to disturb as m new on this and any one feels like helping me will be highly appreciated

Farhan:

We're glad to have you here and appreciate you sharing scans of your stamps.

As you're learning, most stamps are fairly common and have a minimal catalog value of about 20 cents --- which really means they have practically no value in terms of buying and selling.

However, they can still be an important part of your stamp collection as you sort and identify them.

Here are a few tips that will help you get more response from your fellow SCF Members.

1: Carefully examine your stamps before you post them here -- you should be able to find a country name and oftentimes a year of issue.

2: Choose a good SUBJECT line. Your subject lines "information" and "any idea" are POOR choices. A lot of people here will just ignore them. A much better subject line would be "Australian Stamps from 1950s" or "Australia 2'6 Queen Elizabeth" etc..

3: If you want to learn something, ask a specific question. Don't just slap up a picture with no narrative or question!

I'm not chastising you -- my intent is to help you help yourself. The quality of information you receive is directly proportional to the amount of research and work you do on your own before you post your scans.

Good Luck,
KirkS

Hello farham,

with Kirk.

Some collectors who specialize in a certain area or country will tend to ignore topics about things that don't interest them. So if you even put the country name(s) in your title it will be a better way as the collectors who know about that country (or have catalogues and info on the) will be more likely to respond.

You will have a better chance of getting someone who really knows his stuff (we all know something but some know more of certain areas or eras) answer you question(s).

The Great Britain (Queen Elizabeth II's head bust on each stamp) castle stamps have been issued in a couple different ways and times. Some are very valuable and some are not. I just know that. I don't know how to tell them apart even.

Another thing to look at is to measure the perforations around the edges of the stamps (how many in 2 cm) for some issues as a difference in perfs will mean sometimes a difference in value also, sometimes by a lot.

Also, for older stamps you could check to see if they have watermarks, which watermark they have, whether it is right side up or upside down or sideways (adds value for differences or missing sometimes)

For new modern stamps that have the phosphorescent ink on the edges around the sides of the stamp (use a UV lamp to see better) there can be errors on this printing technique also. Missing parts of the phosphor tagging (or edging) or missing completely when it is supposed to be there. Sometimes this is just a different version of the same stamp and doesn't mean it is worth more. Sometimes it make it worth a lot more. Depends on the rarity of the error and stamp.

Sometimes stamps have errors, freaks or oddities in printing or engraving that make them worth more to only certain collectors that like that sort of thing. Sometimes the circular cancels (or other types) are prized by collectors of them.

Look on ebay or Delcampe and search for 'error' or 'efo' or 'variety' and see what come up. Fascinating.

Different catalogues will tell you this information about different countries. There is now a lot of this information on the internet also, but you need to know the words to search for.

On this site (stamp Community SCF) there is a ton of info. Just read a lot of the threads and use the search feature.

And you can ask questions of course. The better the question, the better the answer and the more knowledgeable the answerer also.

The airplane stamp is 1965 GB (Great Britain) or UK (United Kingdom) and part of a set of 8 stamps about World War II and the 25th anniversary of the Battle of Britain air war. I like them, nice airplane action sequences and all that. That one shows British Spitfire supermarine fighters attacking a German Heinkel HE-111H bomber.

It is priced at GBP (Great Britain Pounds) 1.00 in the 2005 Stanley Gibbons catalogue I have but SG mostly overprices the stamps. The wavey-lined cancel detracts from the price (as far as I am concerned) as a circular dated cancel would be much better or even one that let you see the stamp design more clearly. This also comes with only three phosphor bands (edging) instead of four and is worth a touch more at 1.50. Not everyone collects the tagging or phosphor stuff and doesn't care about it as they can't be bothered with the UV lamp. They want to see the stamp and that is that (I think). Also extra expense.

See what catalogues will give you. Makes the stamps a lot more interesting.

A side note about cost and value and worth of stamps. The catalogues say a price, this is what a dealer would charge you for a very very nice copy of the stamp at his shop to cover his time and efort. The price is not what a stamp is worth. When the other fellow and gals say that a stamp is common or 20c that means that most (80%) of stamps are priced at 20c or so in cataloges to show what it cost the dealer to go through the morions to sell you a stamp. That is all.

The value is always relative. Condition matters quite a bit, better conditions commands higher prices. Eye appeal.

Depends on supply and demand also. If I really wanted that airplane stamp amd loved airplanes and was missing that stamp from my set to complete it and it was priced a bit above what I would expect to normally pat I just might pay that extra money because it would make me happy at the time.

If you are selling, depends on your salesmanship skills also. Maybe you could get a $1 for that stamp. I couldn't gat 10c for it, well maybe 10c.

Stamps are different than coins. They do not have an intrinsic value, their value is based on supply and demand and the perception of the buyer. That's it.

Sorry I got carried away and ran on a bit here.

The castles: 1955-1957 perf 11 horizontal x 12 vertical are the expensive ones. There were printed by two printing companies (or printers) Waterlow or Del La Rue. The differences are very subtle and sometime rely on the colour shade or the warmth of the engraving lines, whatevr that is!?? Probably do some searching on these and there is probably some info available on determining the two types.

Check watermarks of course. I am not sure when the later issue of these (the more common) came out.

Australia:
Last stamp: 1948, Scouting Jamboree - Pacific, basic common value, 0.25

King George VI (6th) 1949, common

Long Grey stamp, 1959 anniversary of post office, common, people would buy this because it has a ship on it (they are standing on a ship).

Again appearance and condition (no rips, tears, thins, creases, extra bits of pocket lint, bird droppings, mouse tooth marks, missing perforations, heavy cancels, etc will detract from the price (for most). It is well centered so that is a plus and the cancel is light and not heavy and obscuring so another plus. Needs a good soak in water to clean it and a flattening between books to flatten it. Then it will present better. Still common but if someone just collects ships (or something else showing on the stamp) and just want ships and not a whole lot of anything else then he may pay $1 for that stamp, nicely presented and all.

Most folks would pay 10c or less for a nice one. Real life pricing.

Glad to answer all the questions you never even thought of asking and are overwhelmed with now. Happy to be of service.


We need a musketeer icon bowing with one of those feathered hats. No not Elton John type but the old French type. Cape and sword and all.

Thanks a lot infact I am new with stamps its my fathers collection. You have given me alot of information I will try to get benefit from it.

and if you can explain watermark little more as I ddnt understand it.

thanks for your help I really appreciate it.

You are welcome.

Watermarks are special distinguishing marks pressed into the paper before the stamps are printed on them, so they are part of the paper.

They are usually invisible to the untrained naked eye.

They show up by looking at the back of the stamp when the stamp is placed on a black surface or sometimes with a light behind it. Some are easy to see, some very hard, depends on the printers and the paper used.

You may try wetting the stamp with

Water (easiest but do not use on Mint stamps (still with gum on)

Watermark fluid, expensive but safe to use chemical that is OK to use on mint stamps and used, will evaporate quickly (put the cap back on the bottle quick!) and shows and defects or watermarks up very nicely. Used also to detect repairs done to older stamps (1895 and before roughly)

Lighter Fluids -(Ronsonol brand) dangerous to use (don't inhale! or breathe in!), use in a well ventilated (windows open) area). Works like watermark fluid but cheaper and more available. Just a lot more dangerous.

It is best to know what you are looking for and to read the catalogue or online to see a picture of the watermark and understand that some catalogues show the mark as if you were looking at the front of the stamp, which is confusing.

Some watermarks are stars or initials or crowns or multiple copies of these.

Modern (1920 +) usually do not have watermarks in the paper. Sometimes you see them in envelope paper when held up to a light. They are used to prevent forgers copying the stamps and so cause a loses in revenue to the post office. Now other security measures are taken or used.

Be wary that some people use Stanley Gibbons catalogues but others use Scott's catalogues (and still others other catalogues) and the stamps are usually numbered differently and the watermarks numbered differently in each catalogue.

Looking for watermarks is called watermark detection. There are expensive machines now that can help you find them also.

Side note, you may change the title of a thread or topic that you started by choosing to edit the first post in the thread.

There, typed too much and my brain is empty. Need to go for a walk to clear the cobwebs, lol.

edit spelling

it looks like you people have done PHD on stamps.

What if some stamp have water marks which can be seen easily with light is valuable or
if it dont have then its valuable or
if I have three stamps of same nature and one of them is showing different watermark then it valuable?


what is the point in it.

I understand it now if there is any mistake in printing or color or perforations around the edges of the stamps makes it valuable and rare But about watermarks whts the positive thing which I need to see.

thanks and regards,

Farhan

I will try to answer. I do not have much experience with them myself however.

Usually when the paper has a watermark in it and stamps are printed upon that paper the watermarked paper is fed into the printing press the same way, that is, in the same orientation.

This could result in stamps with watermarks upside down as a usual thing or most of the time, right side up is the usual thing. Depends on that issue and that stamp and that printing of that stamp (some stamps were used a lot and have many printings, some different than others).

Assuming that a stamp on watermarked paper is usually found with the watermark right side up then on the odd occasion, when a sheet of paper was fed into the printing press upside down or sideways then, then the stamp is printed right side up, the watermark looks as if it is in upside sown or sideways or both sometimes.

Stamps were usually printed in the millions. So a run of stamps (say 10,000 of them) that had the paper fed into the press in an unusual orientation, would be the rarity and command the extra premium over and above the regular price of that stamp.

It is the rarity factor that makes one worth more. And that rarity factor is not the same for every stamp or every issue from the same country. It changes.

To know the proper (usual) orientation of a watermark on a stamp the catalogues have assigned numbers (and letters) to each known watermark used by each country. They then, next to each stamp listing in the catalogue, put a notation or note telling you which watermarks (or watermarks) were used. Then, if one denomination of an issue is known to exist with a different orientation of that watermark, the catalogue will note this by making a sub-number for that stamp.

Say the regular stamp is number 333, then an upside down watermark on that stamp would be numbered 333a or 333i or similar, to differentiate it from a regular stamp and to give it an extra line and pricing.

The pricing depends on the rarity of the difference. If only one sheet was fed upside down then wow, very expensive. If half the run was fed that way then not so expensive.

Pricing is assigned similarly due to other varieties like colour shades or perf changes, types of paper used, etc, etc. Different for different countries and different eras also. Thus the use of specialized country catalogues rather than the general world catalogues.

If anyone has anything to add to my bumbling about with explanations of things I have no real experience with then please do jump right in.

A scanner of some sort (flatbed is best) is ideal to examine stamps in detail and to see the little re-entries and flaws and faults. Watermarks can be scanned but show up most mostly only when wet, preferably in watermark fluid in a petri dish or container using a black background. Otherwise very hard to scan.

A link to a page that has information on scanning in general and scanning watermarks (with pictures)
http://www.pgacon.com/tips_on_scann...20Watermarks

Got it I like the way you explain it sorry for bothering you. If I start getting this information by myself it would have taken me a week or more which you have given me in two hours.

Stanley Gibbons catalogues and Scott's catalogues any one of these available online in PDF Format
or they are in the form of Catalogue books

Qureshi,

To the best of my knowledge, all online websites or downloadable files of SG and Scott catalogues are in violation of copyright laws and are never linked or even acknowledged by SCF. Please edit your post.

Brian

farhan, if you have access to Amazon or ebay, you can often find catalogs of past years at low prices. I put together a set of the 2009 Scott catalog for less than 10 dollars per volume, so it can be done.

New or current catalogs are expensive. A complete 6 volume set of Scott would cost in excess of 400 dollars and that would be finding it at discount. Full retail on Scott can cost 600 dollars, give or take.

I see that you are in Pakistan. I don't know just what resources are available to you. If you have a library, perhaps they might be able to help you have access to a catalog.