More Baby Steps: Understanding The Pss Catalogs ...

Finally got my PSS catalogs and have spent some time looking them over and now trying to match up some of my stamps with not a lot of luck.

The books I have: PSS Bureau PCs 2005, PSS Classics 2011 and PSS T&T 2007.

Problems (examples):

I have a Statue of Liberty 15c with the L1-E Jackson, MI circular PC on it. Obviously it isn't mentioned in the Classics book that stops in 1908 and it's not in the Bureau catalog, so I assume it wasn't a Bureau type. In the T&T, the Type is listed ... but without any indication of which denominations it appeared on. It says $1, so I gather that means that the most common stamp with this PC is valued at $1. So far, so good. But how do I know what *other* stamps (beyond the 15c) this PC appears on? Or how "rare" (or common) this particular denomination of the Type might be? The Classics book seems to list every possible stamp that could have each type of PC (inc. inverted examples, etc.), but the T&T does not and seems very generic. What am I missing here? Do I have the wrong catalog?

Also, I saw online a Cashmere, WA, which appears to be a 743, except it is turned sideways (runs top to bottom of a regular 11x10.5 perf W-F). Is that just interchangeable with a horizontal 743? Do all PCs come in either direction without differentiation? Or is one rarer / higher value? Or is a vertical PC a completely different thing from a horizontal one, and if so where are these listed? And again, how does one know which stamp issues may have a vertical PC of this type?

These are no doubt very silly questions, so please excuse my ignorance. Thanks!

The door to precancels is only now opening for you.
The are T&T, bureau's, silents, provisionals, Dated handstamps, Printed dates (integral), Zip, Ghost(DPO), revenue, classics, city coil, DLE, electroplate, rubber, vinyl, experimentals, Fake, favour, mimeograph, & other countries Canada, Belgium, Algeria, Tunsia, Danzig, Austria, UN, Turkey, Hungary, Monaco, Turkey & the UK.

The stamp you mention with a Jackson, MI with an L-1E, does not officially exist!

OK - but how do you know? Where is the list that says what stamps a Jackson L-1E *can* appear on?

The "Catalogue of the Printed Precancels of the United States" by Bruce Brunnell, 2006

Also n old Hoover, Rothem precancel catalogs from 1940 or older!

So are the PSS catalogs on their own no use?

When I bought them, I foolishly assumed the three together would furnish a complete research library.

Is there additional info / pics / lists on the CD versions?

Oh -- and if noone lists the 15c with Jackson L-1E, what does that mean?

Is there a similar PC and I am misinterpreting the stamp?

Is it normal that types "do not exist"?

Or is this really worth a million bucks and an AA rating???

Forgery! They my exist but they are omitted from the catalogs because of forgery, unauthorized provisional use among other possibilities. But there are separate guides for those somewhere.

JanS - all good questions, and the kind that all precancel collectors start out with. First - you will not find the 15c Jackson MI in the catalogs you bought - sorry. Because there were so many different precancels - some authors suggest about 2 million denominations! - no one book carries them complete. Checking the PSS website, there does not even appear to be a specialized Michigan catalog ever produced. The 2 quick answers to your question about its value are: [1] the 1937 Hoover general catalog will list all denominations on that precancel. It shows values, but since they are from 1937 - they are not too useful [and some are even too high today!]. A reference like that will, usually, accurately show the relative values of the denominations withi the type. The Hoover 1937 shows the Oval Jackson on 8 denominations. The 15cent 1922 is listed at 0.60 - 74 years later, that is still a fair asking price!. [2] come to a precancel roundup {or here} and ask questions - people are happy to share knowledge. Hoover 1937, obviously published before even the 1938 presidentials, will not include many items in your collection.

There are state GENERAL catalogs that will list all the denominations included in the types. Many of these are rather out of date - and prices are unreliable. Most of the current general catalogs list all the denominations but do not attempt to price/value each one. My Alabama general catalog is rather up to date, but does not price denominations: http://www.precancels.org/literature/alabama3d.pdf

As far a orientations of the precancels. Traditionally, printed precancels [those of the PSS 200 series] are collected in all orientations and the general catalogs will price them separately. Handstamp precancels [400-900 series] are usually not separately priced, although specialists may keep all different orientations. For the purpose of "counting your types" - all orientations are ignored. In general a nice 'properly oriented' precancel is preferred by most over an invert, double, or vertical in the 400-900 series. Coil machine precancels [PSS 100 series] are often collected in the various orientations and the coil catalog [another one you do not have] lists all the orientations.

From the Hoover 1937 listings:

Sorry, slight misinformation above. The Hoover 1937 catalog only lists denominations AFTER 1920. This precancel is listed on 26 other denoms/orientations in the Classic pre-1920 catalog. So, there are 34 listed varieties in all. Printed local types [like the PSS-200 series] are catalog-listed in all orientations.
According to Wiki, the current population of Jackson is 33,534 - quite a drop!

I Love Stamps, If you are referring to chasa statement on the Hoover Catalog here is some info.
Hoover Catalog by 1930 replaced the Rotnem Catalog as the principle precancel catalog. Rotnem had produced catalogs from 1925-1929 except no catalog in 1927. The 1930 Hoover was the last catalog that cover all precancels in one catalog. There was no catalog issued in 1931 In 1932, Hoover issued Part one of the 15th edition covering issues to 1920 & was 361 pages long. Part 2 followed dated 1933/34 covering issues from 1920 to then present with 1091+ pages. No Catalog issued until 1937 16th edition came out but that only undated previous Part 2 publication with 1272 pages. Later in 1940 Hoover finally readdressed Part 1 of the 16th edition again covering issues up to 1920 with 566 pages.

Prior to the Rotnem Catalogs were the Bushnell published catalogs as the "United States Precancel Catalog" starting in 7 parts issued between 1918-1919. Then in 1920 retitled "Standard Precancel Stamp Catalog" with 8th edition, 1921 released 2 volumes, followed by 4 volume set released in 1922-23 & all 4 were combined as one at the end of 1923.

Before Bushnell's are the 1904 issue of "Catalog Of Precanceled Postage Stamps of the United States" by FL Smith & George Duck. Smith would issue an updated in 1912 on his own under the same title.

In reading the history of precancel catalogs you provided, I'm just wondering where did the Noble catalog come in?

Note that the above catalog are intended to cover all types of precancels.
While the Noble Catalogs covered only Bureau's only!

Noble stepped into the scene with the last of the Hoover-Mitchell Bureaus Catalog in 1954 as publisher.
Then in 1956 issued the Mitchell-Noble Official Catalog of Bureau Precanceled Stamps. Then the following year
it became the Noble Official Catalog of Bureau Precanceled Stamps published every year until 1981.
A final catalog was published in 1983, no catalog in 1982.

Thanks for clarifying. It seems to me that with all of these resources out there someone would have been able to put together a comprehensive catalog in a single source. I guess it comes down to copyright and all of the various publishers and precancel types out there that has made that impossible. It sure would help the newcomer to the hobby, though.

As I understand it those 1930's to 1950's catalogs used to cost anywhere from 50 cents to $10; whereas today one must spend 10x to 100x that amount to get the entire set needed to identify all of the different types (if you can even find some of the old ones that are now long out of print).