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Cinderellas Or Essays - Mystery Solved

 
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
6525 Posts
Posted 09/09/2011   1:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add jamesw to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Bought these on ebay last week, and was waiting until I had them in hand to show them to you. The seller advertised them as 'fantasy cinderellas', but I had other suspicions.
As you can see they are what appear to be US #1 & 2, but without the text or denomination. They are engraved and printed on a medium card stock.
What got my imagination going about these was the tiny initials at the bottom of each portrait, B.E.&P. (the original 1 and 2 had the initials R.W.H. & E. for printer Rawdon, Wright, Hatch and Edson). The initials B.E.& P. (Bureau of Engraving and Printing) appeared on the 1947 100th Anniversary of U.S. postage stamps souvenir sheet (see where I'm going with this? )
So my assumption was that these are essays for the 1947 sheet. I'd emailed the seller a couple of questions but he knew nothing about these, had them for years.
Now, I see that the website 1847usa.com says that the 1875 reproductions were also printed by B.E.& P. But these look very clean, so I doubt they are that old.

So I want to know what you all think. Do you think these are essays?
Spoiler alert, I've already emailed Roger Kirby at swedishtiger for his opinion, and he was very kind in getting back to me quickly. His opinion was quite favourable.


I throw it out there.






Could be my find of the summer.
bring on the dancing fruit!
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Edited by jamesw - 09/27/2011 1:45 pm

Pillar Of The Community
United States
5894 Posts
Posted 09/09/2011   9:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add smauggie to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Cinderellas. Essays would show denomination. Very attractive pieces!
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Valued Member
United States
488 Posts
Posted 09/09/2011   9:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add LONEDAN to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
fantastic
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6661 Posts
Posted 09/09/2011   10:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, Cinderellas. For the record, not all Essays show a denomination
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
12128 Posts
Posted 09/09/2011   10:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wt1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just a guess, but would they have anything to do with the Pacific '97 panes of 50-cent and 60-cent stamps that utilized the same design as the original #1 and #2 and the 1947 Souvenir Sheet?
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
6525 Posts
Posted 09/09/2011   11:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jamesw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Discussing this with someone at my stamp club, he thought it sounded like, what he called a 'progressive essay'.
Regardless, the similarities with the souvenir sheet stamps are uncanny. Tomorrow I'll post the pictures side by side, just for comparison.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1947 Posts
Posted 09/10/2011   06:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rohumpy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Was the BE & P up and running in 1875? THe first BEP stamps were the definitives in the 1890's when the triangles were added in the upper corners to the small banknote plates..

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6661 Posts
Posted 09/10/2011   06:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Both the Pacific 97 and the 1947 Souvenir sheet have text and value.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
6525 Posts
Posted 09/10/2011   11:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jamesw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Was the BE & P up and running in 1875?


According to 1847usa.com, they did the 1875 reproductions, but that is the only source I have.

For comparison I've married the souvenir sheet images (right) with my mystery 'essays' (left)







Does it prove anything? I don't know, but they sure are exact copies and are identical I size.
FYI Roger Kirby has emailed me again after seeing the high rez images and is convinced they are essays. Doesn't know their exact origin though.
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
12128 Posts
Posted 09/10/2011   11:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wt1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
While the portraits may look identical, the leaves/wreaths in the border do not match. Very subtle differences, but just not the same.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
6525 Posts
Posted 09/10/2011   12:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jamesw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
True facts wt1. I had noticed that too. But now comes the chicken and egg part. Were the wreaths redrawn from the essay stage to souvenir sheet to include the text, or were they redrawn from sheet to cinderella to exclude them?

Just to clarify I did email the original pictures from ebay to another source, besides swedishtiger, for opinion, I think the USPS, but received no answer. I simply can't afford an expertization. So if anyone has thought who else I could email for a free opinion, love to hear it.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
6525 Posts
Posted 09/15/2011   5:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jamesw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thought I'd bump this one. Anyone else have any notions about these babies?
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Rest in Peace
United States
7097 Posts
Posted 09/16/2011   8:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add I_Love_Stamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I love those! I do think that these were essays in stage or another. Maybe an engravers proof of some type?
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
6525 Posts
Posted 09/27/2011   1:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jamesw to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just heard from Marvin Murray at the Smithsonian National Postal Museum about my mystery 'stamps'
Sad news (for me anyway ), hi identifies these as being trimmed from a souvenir card for the Anphilex '71 (Souvenir Card Scott Catalog #17). The show was in New York and the card honored the 75th anniversary of the Collectors Club.
A quick google search turns up the card.




Oh well it was exciting while it lasted. They're still beautiful little engravings, but will have a new home in the cinderella pile.
I am humbled.
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