Guys What You Think About This Grill?

Another of mine stamps with un-identified grill, can someone tell me what it is?
First stamp



Second stamp

measure the grill in mm

a scan of the front please.

Second stamp looks like an E grill to me -- 14 X 17 points.

Here is front of bottom one :)

Top one looks same as bottom one

Hmm did enyone spoted that grill points are pointing down? (III)- Its looks to me...

It's in the ridges. Horizontal or vertical ?

Good question I don't know!

GLADIATOR001....People are here to offer advice and help to the best of their ability. When someone tells you that you dont have 1 of 6 recorded examples you post another to test...sorry you didnt hit the jackpot...but get real...the 1c you posted is #85A....probably the most famous US stamp (besides c3a inverted jenny)...you should have just compared that grill to yours from the start instead of wasting time, mine and others.

We may not all agree with each other as to which grill you have. So, at least one, or possibly all of us are potentially wrong. It really is difficult to tell from your scans but my guess, I repeat my guess, is that the first stamp is an F grill and the the second is an E grill. I base my opinion on the relative size of the grill in relation to the size of stamp. It is also impossible to tell points up or down nor vertical or horizontal ridges from the scans.

Sheetguy2 - As you can see we are not here to waste your time but to learn, no one is born with knowledge, it is hard to distinguish between E grill and Z grill and I come here to learn more about it, your chance is to share your knowledge and expert eye with me so we can better unterstand a difference.
Top image is more likely a E gill , but bottom one is certified Z grill stamp from auction website.
The point is with out knowing whitch one is whitch would you tell a difference?
In the both pictures if you count points it could be a Z , but logic will allways tell it is imposible.
Even ridges looks pointing down in both images!!
For me and not only me it is sonfuse dot com :)

The point is how to spot a diamond from the garbage?

Both E and Z grills have 14 x 17 points and both are points down. The two differences between the two grills are: 1) the E grill is 11x13 mm, the Z grill is 11x14 mm and 2) E grill has vertical ridges while the Z grill has horizontal ridges. However, there is some disagreement found on websites. One says that Z grills can have either 17 or 18 vertical points but another site indicates only 18 vertical points for a Z grill. All sites I have found are in agreement that only the Z grill has horizontal ridges, so that makes the direction of the ridges as the defining feature of a Z grill.

???? according to the topic subject, our expert gals cannot respond?