Where Do I Put These In The Album? 65,83,85,85c,88,94?

I have received some very good advice here recently and I could use some more help.

I just got these as part of a small collection and would like some learned opinions about where these should go in the album.

The 1st one looks like it should be a #65 to me.
The next two with grills could indeed be #88s.
Numbers 4 and 5 are very narrow which I have not seen before.

The last one I could see being a true imperf based on the width of the margins but I am not sure. The only reference I have regarding this type of 3c is a 1959 Scott Catalog which has a listing for a 65d/65e imperf pair.

What say ye?

I'll take a stab at it. I noticed that the grills look different on the 5th one from left so it could be a #94 but unsure? I tried counting the points of the grill and they are best I can tell about 19 vertical & 14 horizontal.

The Scott catalog says an "F" grill is 11-12 x 15-17 so it may be an #88 after all? I actually never considered an #85 but the point count almost fits for a "D" grill?

Maybe someone that's versed on the grill types can shed more light on this?

#65, #88, #88, re-perfed #65, re-perforated or mis-perforated #88 or possible #94 <-?, #65p3 <-? I have seen a few P3's postally used but I'm not positive on yours however, that's what it certainly appears to be.

P.S.
(does it (the imperforate stamp) have a grill by chance? it looks maybe like a faint grill pattern on the reverse image over G.W. eyes/forehead area? maybe an #88P2)

The last one most probably is simply a trimmed perforation Stamp. In order for it to be certified as imperforate it would need to be an attached pair. The 5th one is a bad perforation job as the perfs on the right hand side went into the design of the Stamp next to it on the sheet and was ripped / cut off on the margin.

Thanks for the quick responses. I too counted the points on #5 and came up with 19x14 so I so now I have to decide if it is a D or Z grill.




Yes it does.

I will see if I can get some close ups of the grills for better identification.

The points will not determine if it is a D or Z grill. It is all in the ridges and the Z grill is the only grill with Horizontal ridges. D, F , G, H, and I Grills all have vertical ridges.

"D" Grill MUST have 15 vertical rows. None of these are "D" grills.

#5 can only be #94 due to the color. All of the grills are a rose color with the exception of #94 which is red, but comes in orange/brown/lake shades.

After looking at the #5 grill though, it looks fake to me. Are the points raised on the face of the stamp? It looks like it's "points up" and the only grill that it could be would be a "C" grill (A,B,C are points up, and it's not an "A" grill which covers the entire stamp, and there's only 4- "B" grills in existence). BUT, it's absolutely the wrong color for the "C" grill which only is found in some type of dull rose. And the impression is so perfect, and the stamp is so bad, I'm sure that it's a fake grill.

Hope this helps.. Ray

Agreed with Stallzer that the last stamp isn't an imperf. No way to pass any 65 off as an imperf without a cert, and no one would certify it as imperforate without being a pair. It's a trimmed perf stamp, and there are a lot of them out there. I bought one from Michael Aldrich, and returned it after posting it on VSC in the Expert's Forum. Bill Weiss basically scolded me for buying it in the first place. I haven't bought anything else from Aldrich since.

Ray

Thanks everybody for adding your opinions. As these were what I would consider 'extras' in what I purchased I am not too concerned about what they really are but I would like to make sure they get identified correctly. I can always dream about one of them being a D or Z

Here is a close up of the backs of the ones with grills. Numbers 2, 3, 5, and 6.



I rubbed some pencil graphite on the backs as suggested by Bill Weiss on VSC and it really helps, except for #6.

Not counting #6 (too hard to tell for me) they do seem to have vertical rows. All 3 look like they have 14 rows.

#2 looks to have 16 horizontal rows, #3 may have 17, while #5 seems to have either 16 or 18 depending on what the top and bottom 'rows' are.




I think I agree. The grill does look points up and too perfect. And the top and bottom 'rows' don't look like points.

So I think what I have here are a couple of #88s, a fake #94, and a fake #65.

All in favor?

The #65 is not a fake, simply a stamp with trimmed off perforations but a legitimate stamp.

Why do people fake grills? Just simply to deceive for profit or something else?

If that grill on number 5 is a fake then my compliments to its creator -- excellent workmanship!

Thanks for all of the input. I always enjoy finding these little 'extras' when obtaining a group or collection.

And definitely vertical ridges.