No More Nazi Stuff... R.i.p.

If I remember my history right, the Nazi's were very fond of squelching idea's and ideology when it didn't fit with their view of life.

The First Amendment is the practical application of the view that ideas, in and of themselves, cannot hurt and should not be buried by censorship.

It seems to me that, although they probably have the legal right to do so, that by censoring the sale of Nazi era material ebay is practing the same intolerance for ideas that the Nazis did. They are certainly running afoul of the First Amendment as I understand it.

I think Modern has a valid point and a right to be frustrated. Of course he has the legal right to never list on ebay again and we have the right not to buy there!

I'll get off my soapbox now.

Of course, Larry, you can get around this stupid restriction if you are willing to go into Paint with your image and merely black out any swastika. Then there should be no problem.

Whenever a minority is allowed to call the shots and have their way, it's definitely 100% about censorship. Thing is, anyone can get offended about anything and complain. Would this guarantee removal by ebay? I doubt it.

Here's an example: I personally find depictions of this man to be offensive.



Now, you may disagree. For all I know, you might see him as being a great General, and you may look at me as being "Un-American" for stating that I find his likeness to be offensive.

Nevertheless, as a Native North American, I find his antics to have been just as genocidal as Hitler's. I am sure that if you review the facts concerning him in your mind, you might be more inclined to see it my way.

Yet, here he is, for sale on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.ca/General-GEORGE-A...nt_W0QQitemZ120291999683QQcmdZViewItemQQptZArt_Prints?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

Now, would I be justified in complaining? Sure. Whether they would agree with me remains to be seen, though.

Would I actually complain? No, because the historian in me sees this as being an important episode in American history. Having the item removed would be to deprive others of the opportunity to make up their mind as to whether they wish to bid on it or buy it. That would be patently unfair.

As well, I don't believe that the tail should wag the dog.

Besides, other lots present the "other side of the story", anyway:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Paxtons-Custers-...tn_W0QQitemZ370145037704QQcmdZViewItemQQptZArt_Paintings?hash=item370145037704&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1215%7C66:2%7C65:12%7C39:1%7C240:1318

And I bet that a whole different set of people are offended by that lot, too, aren't they? So maybe they should ask that it be removed, because we wouldn't want anyone to buy it that actually believes that genocide against the Native peoples was a good thing, would we? Similar protests could be lodged against any number of items, so maybe they should be removed also.

Before long, there'd be no lots left on ebay, would there? Any minority group could find any justification to ask for a lot's removal.

Yes, it's ebay's site, and ebay makes the rules, and if you disagree with them, you don't have to sell there. That's fine, no one is forcing you to sell there or even to patronize it.

And for all the "good" things ebay might be, the one thing it's not is a free marketplace.

I guess Bobby and I are in agreement about a line being drawn..we folks in the U.S. have to remember that a lot of people in modern Europe find this material HIGHLY offensive or would just like to forget about that time !! In fact I will go a little further..theres nothing glorious about that crap !!

I wanted to give WpgLwr the chance to respond to me which he has.

I think this thread has pretty much played out it's usefulness and runs a fairly high risk of degrading into a discussion outside the scope of this forum. Therefore I'm going to give it 6-8 hours or so for members to get in Their last comments and I'm going to lock it.

The sale of nazi-related material is very difficult. It is very popular stuff, but it is also illegal in some European countries (France, Germany and others).
I have no idea why Modern Who's items were disabled, perhaps because he did not state that his cards could not be sold to residents of France, Germany, Austria etc.? Anyway, it appears very hypocritical. There are 1,000s of items that are far more propaganda being sold on ebay. Apparently without any problem...

I think perhaps you're right, Jan-Simon. I believe that the disclaimer must be used in the ad, in order to be in compliance with the laws of those countries, as well as to discourage bidders from there.

Only one question? Is there any policy against posting stamps that were produced by any postal authority on this site? Regardless of the content?

A fair question for this site, to tell the truth I could give a rats backside to the ebay policy.

See my post on the previous page after modern started removing things.....




"Regardless of the content?"... I certainly won't say that's true since I haven't seen every stamp in the World. Remember, we have kids here. If you wouldn't want your 13 year old daughter seeing it, don't post it.

Modern Who's views were deleted yesterday and yet others views today have not....in fact extra time has been given so the likes of myself can put there two pence worth in.

I find that more disappointing that ebay's ridiculous rules and regulations that have no consistency.

May I suggest that this whole thread be deleted, or if it is to remain in a locked state for all to read, then Modern Who's excellent speech be re-instated.

He is owed that at the very least.

Londonbus1

Thanks Bobby, I really can't think of any stamps a 13 year couldn't look at. There might be one but I don't know about it. I thought that was the case but I just thought it would be nice to hear it straight from the boss.

mkfarm,
Oh but there are a number of stamps that would need to be explained to a collector of any age......especially those younger ones.

When I get my Scott catalogue back from Golovacz I will send you some numbers.

Some stamps can be quite shocking and I know one in particular that was recently banned [and deleted] from a top Stamp forum.

Londonbus1

Londonbus1, thank you for the moral support but I doubt that is restoration of my opinion is about to happen.

Larry your rant had absolutely NOTHING to do with stamps.

Here it is....




Tell me what any of this has to do with stamps. It was posted solely for the shock value and has no place here. If you want to have these types of discussions they belong in General discussion or on a Politics forum. Not here.

This is ridiculous.

Hello everyone......

........in my opinion.......

First.........I agree that Custers' attitude and actions are a very black stain on American history.

But, to compare him to Hitler is, in my mind, giving him more value than is deserved. Hitler will forever stand alone as the worlds most odious creature.


Mod has every right to feel as he does......we are ALL entitled to our opinions.

ebay also has every right to do as they wish.....regardless of stated policy.

Many parts of this discussion absolutely belong in this forum.....as is anything involving ANY postal item. However I also think that in our passion we sometimes wander off topic. This is not the place to discuss our political views......

..........even if we all agreed.

BTW, ebay found and and removed the third item, so just to be safe,
I deleted four covers that had either a Hitler stamp or a Nazi
symbol in their cancel.

Achtung! ebay hat gesprochen.