Washington Franklin Coil 445. Fake? What Is Mark On Back?

I've posted this stamp before, but apparently didn't look at the back. It measures about 23.8 from straight edge to straight edge, so it seems more than likely that it's a fake. I'd like to send it to Bill Weiss, but since it's a coil I can't opt out of the Cert. if it's not a 445.

I might send it in anyway as the album it came from didn't have any other fakes, but I'd appreciate any opinions. I'm also curious about the stamp on the back. I would guess it's just a dealers or collectors mark, but maybe there's an off chance it's an expertisers mark.

I don't know about the little "S" on the back. The bottom edge looks much sharper than the top. Could the top edge be a natural straight edge? Does it measure 23.8 mm on both the right and left sides (i.e., are the top and bottom perfectly parallel? I would guess it's a fake, but am certainly no expert on these issues.

Matt

The mark on the back is almost certainly a collectors handstamp, a very popular thing to do from the 20's-50's. A few older collectors might have kept going as long as they continued collecting. Sometimes it was initials, and sometimes a full name. On revenues it is not all that unusual to see "Henry Holcombe", a major revenue collector, stamped on the back

It does measure the same all the way across. You're right, the top has a more feathered appearance than the bottom. I couldn't "feel" a difference, but I haven't been feeling coil edges for 50 years.


Thanks Revcollector. It probably is a collectors mark, I just wanted it to be an expertisers mark. I've never actually seen one on a US stamp yet.

The top looks manipulated to me with very slight dips at the left which are reminiscent of perforation holes.

Doubt you'd get a good cert. at 23.8mm. Generally, 24.5mm is the low end and 25.0mm is the more acceptable measurement of a horizontal coil. That being said, I've been told that some #389s have been cert'ed. with less than 24.5mm. and there are good horizontal coils wiith more than 25.0mm measurements. Looks trimmed on the bottom to me.

I'm tempted to send it in to see how Bill Weiss says its been altered. I don't really want to spend 35 - 40ish dollars on a fake. Then again I'd have a definite answer and would give me a reference for my other coils.

Any other opinions on how the straight edges look different from each other, one "clean" the other feathered? The bottom edge might be slightly crooked, off by maybe .1 mm or less

Hey Raymodj,

I had a similar question on a 445 at the end of this thread

www.stampcommunity.org/topic...OPIC_ID=31201

The consensus was a strong possibility of a Sc 445 but I never did send it in for a cert. My copy, though, is a 24.5+ mm from top to bottom. I don't feel that your 23.8 mm is quite enough. Good luck on your quest.

My guess: faked from 10x10 sheet stamp - not nearly tall enough.

Ok, the votes have been tabulated and it's unanimous! I looked at my other coils from this set and most are a little short and most have one straight edge that looks too clean.

I don't know why I didn't try this earlier, but I found an old Washington Franklin (Scott 503) with a natural straight edge and trimmed off the other side. I just did a fast swipe with a scissors, not to fool anyone, just to see how it looked.



Yep, just as you all said... And now I feel more confident about seeing fake coils.

Another thing I haven't figured out is what "bluish paper" looks like. Or "china paper" for that matter.

So as I was looking for old straight edges to mutilate, I pulled this one out of the same album as the 445, it was in there as a 477. I almost gave it a quick cut when I noticed the paper was darker than the other stamp. Probably because the ink is dark brown and it spread to the paper, but it's never been soaked. Used, but still has most of the glue on the back.

It doesn't look "bluish" and it's not any thicker than usual, but I'd like to hear what you all have to say about ID'ing bluish and china paper.



(edited for typo)

Place the stamp face down onto an orange piece of construction paper, or any paper, like an envelope etc., that is orange, or from the orange/yellow (darker the better) color family. If it is a bluish W/F, the paper color of the back of the stamp should appear as a shade of gray/bluish gray in color (the orange background helps bring out the paper color to the viewer). It should also show that way when placing the stamp face up, but its just eaiser to determine first by looking at the stamp face down. "China Clay" paper should, I think also appear grayish but darker than the bluish? "China Clay" paper is also (I think) more stiff that other papers. The experts are now saying "China Clay" is not a paper variety, just a dirtier appearing paper resulting in dirty water from a low river water condition being used in the production of normal paper production at the processing mill where the paper was made---at least thats what I remember reading about it a while back. I've read some articles, and seen some catalogue references to other "experimental" papers being used in the W/F production, but there isn't too much "talk" about that. If you think you have a bluish issue, you may wish to get it experized. Also, the 4-cent and 8-cent bluish issues are not known in used condition. Perhaps others on this form will have added information for you on the issue of bluish/china clay paper.

Thanks Al, great information as always. The stamp is in my desert magic book, so I should be able to check out the back soon. You're right about the China Clay being dirty water, I just read that recently too. I think it was in the US specialized catalogue, but maybe I read it online.

I don't think I have the 460 or a "dirty" stamp, but as I went to cut it and saw it was a darker color my first thought was, "sure, I find a 'struck by lightning twice' stamp, but I trim the perfs off!"