US 4706-09

I have followed your forums and figured out the measuring of the flags to tell which set the stamp belongs in. I have several thousand of these on paper and trying to get them sorted out. Is the ATM Bklt stamps the usual very thing plastic like Material? I removed about 50 of the 18.5 mm ones and found none of the thin paper. Is there anyway to tell without removing from paper? Where any of them used on Mail?

Thanks Lass

All of the 18.5mm flags are produced by Ashton Potter. Scott 4641-44 appear to have a matte finish whereas the ATM stamps (4706-09) appear to have a glossy surface. Hold the stamps at a slight angle from a light source & watch for any shiny reflections. If the stamp appears shiny at all, it's an ATM.

I have several thousand of these flags on paper and have used the different guides to help determine all the others without removing from paper. I have been using the shinny test and pick out one and remove it from paper but they all are ordinary paper. They must be thin translucent paper, right? Has anyone found any used ones in big batches of stamps? The stamps I have are virgin in that no one else has gone through them. I have went through over a thousand and hoping to find one that is perfed on all sides and no such luck. Any thoughts will be appreciated. Lass

One other thought on the Four Flags ATM stamps. The convertible booklet flags will either have 2 adjacent SEs (Straight Edges) or 1 SE at the top or bottom. ATM stamps can exhibit either of these configurations, but in addition can also have NO SEs or 1 SE at the left or right. Since you haven't found any stamps without SEs, look for one where the SE is on the left or right. Statistically, these should be the most common ATM stamps. In a pane of 18, there will be 4 stamps with 2 adjacent SEs (corners), 4 stamps with no SEs (center column), 2 stamps with 1 SE at top or bottom (top/bottom of center column), and 8 stamps with 1 SE at left or right (left/right columns). Note that this means that 12 out of 18 stamps in each ATM pane should be immediately distinguishable from convertible booklet stamps.
Oops! I forgot about 4673-4676 from the AVR booklet of 10. Stamps from this booklet can have 1 SE at left or right. But these are NOT APU stamps. So the above still applies, albeit without the "immediately" distinguishable. In other words, you would still need to measure the flags on stamps with a single SE at left or right.

See page 4 of this thread for a helpful cheat sheet. https://goscf.com/t/22828&whichpage...four%2Cflags

It is very difficult to identify the ATM variety while still on paper. I put a group of "possibles" next to each other and picked out the ones that appeared to be different. Most were not ATM, but I did eventually get them all with some trial and error.

I have looked at the sorting procedures and follow it and have been able to identify all of the stamps and have them but none of the ATM's. Any that I think have a different shine to them I remove from paper to see if the thin paper. I went through over a 1000 stamps looking for a 4 sided one and no avail. Also all those oerfed on either left or right that I had and they all check 19.25 mm across the flag. So I have come to the conclusion that there are none in this bag. I am in Iowa and I think most of this mail came from the Midwest so maybe they weren't sold or used in the Midwest.

Thanks for your help. I will keep chasing. Lass

While I don't recall seeing the quantity issued for any of the Four Flag varieties, I would guess that the ATM was probably the lowest. I do remember the USPS indicating that, due to the Lady Liberty & Flag ATM sheets still being readily available, that the Four Flags ATM would only be distributed to SFS in KC. This could be another indicator that the quantity issued was rather low. At one time, the USPS was supposedly phasing out the ATM panes in favor of on-demand indicia. So I think that ATM stamps are likely to be scarcer for most of the definitive issues for the past few years.

For the record, the Four Flags Stamps were issued in various formats (coils, CB20s, etc.) in quantities of 1 billion stamps in each format; the CB10 (4673-76) was the lowest print quantity at 200 million; the ATM18 (4706-09) was the second lowest at 342 million.

Of course, those numbers are all relative, as they represent overall print quantities that were originally announced (in the Postal Bulletin) when the stamps first hit the market. Since then, there have been reprints and no one is really telling the stamp collecting public how many of these stamps have actually been sold, versus what sits in inventory and/or eventually gets destroyed after new issues come out to replace them.

Thanks for the update on the numbers. Evidently very few of those are used in the Midwest. I know one of the members of our stamp club says he finds them on mail from FL or the west coast. On all ATM stamps we have a very difficult time finding them.