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Dissappointed With New Site.....attn Bill Weiss!

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Pillar Of The Community
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1493 Posts
Posted 06/18/2014   7:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JLLebbert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm sure in ebay's thought process they saw the ability for a bidder to scare off the other bidders to obtain an item for cheap.

Not being able to contact a potential buyer also prevents one from alerting said bidder that the item they are bidding on is not "as advertised". Contacting the seller frequently has no effect, even when the item description is obviously incorrect. ebay appears to believe that "caveat emptor" should be the prevailing marketplace paradigm.
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Posted 06/18/2014   8:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kevin504 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
And the fact that you started this thread and made allegations that we had violated our own rules kind of frosted me.

Don....I tried to contact you directly thru your site BEFORE I posted the thread.
Remember, I said the email was returned/bounced back.


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Australia
415 Posts
Posted 06/18/2014   8:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add pagoda to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Don,

the one that particularly annoyed me was the statement

" TINY NICK IN TOP MARGIN "

therefore the item should not have been described as sound.

That is nitpicking, it should not have been mentioned on a site that is for Fakes & Forgeries and I am sure that the reporter has a bone to pick with the seller and was looking at the seller's listing to find anything that could be reported on.

Pagoda
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Posted 06/18/2014   9:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kevin504 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Don....
Just viewed the site again....
So....it looks like anyone who joins can post whatever they feel is a misdescribed item???
I have view 1 item there....I disagreed with the poster....
After reviewing the listing further....it looks like Bill W chimed in
and said he agreed with the lister.....not the poster.

Are these items screened before posting???
Is it correct that anyone can post about any item???
Give me (us) the breakdown procedure please.
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Posted 06/18/2014   9:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Not being able to contact a potential buyer also prevents one from alerting said bidder that the item they are bidding on is not "as advertised".


But how does Joe buyer know that the person sending the message is an expert ?I'm just playing Devils advocate but I wouldn't want any random person on ebay sending me messages.

We have members here using this site to link to their ebay auctions
and the one I just looked at is asking an absurd sum for something they labeled "rare".

Don't get me wrong as I think the site will be a very useful tool a nd ebay does need some knowledgeable people overseeing some things.
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Posted 06/19/2014   12:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add disi123 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Stallzer... ebay doesn't want (anyone) "overseeing some things". In their view they lost buyers 10 or so years ago by trying that with the APS, getting numerous complaints (presumably mostly from sellers) about the "APS SPIES"... and the "APS POLICE". Their ongoing policies and procedures call for (not) initiating (anything) that will drive away buyers, by reinforcing their Buyer Protection Programs into buyers...
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Posted 06/19/2014   05:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for the questions.

1. A member enters a review of a listing. There review is considered 'open' until that listing 'closes' in one fashion or another.
There are 5 ways a listing closes. They are; 1. Listing Unchanged, Item Sold; 2. Listing Unchanged, Item Unsold; 3. Listing Modified, Item Sold; 4. Listing Modified, Item Unsold; or 5. Listing Removed or Deleted

2. During this time the original reviewer, or other members, can do additional discovery and contact the seller.
But note that this time frame is undetermined; a reviewer might see a listing and write a review for a listing with a wide variety of days left before it goes to auction (or a BIN item ends). Ideally this step will be done for every review but note that neither contacting the seller or adding additional discovery information is required. We do have an easy way for all users to filter out reviews that have not meet this criteria if desired.

3. If the seller responds, his/her response is noted.
We also support having Sellers can also respond at any time, including well after the listing and review have 'closed'.

4. Finally when the listing closes we also close that review and record the outcome.

Please keep in mind that we do not mandate a 'review' of the review. Other members can add their own comments to a review in two places, sellers can have their input added if they desired.

We also do try to not limit or censor the reviews or the 'type' of a review. This is not just for a fakes or forgeries; our goal is to help limit bad transactions through education. Hopefully he doesn't mind but I will use LarryBruce's recent thread ("I am being blackmailed on ebay with neg feedback") as an example where StampSmarter might have helped.

In mind opinion Larry's listing was legitimate but I also agree that he may have avoided the hassle if he had added more details to it. So if someone had reviewed his listing and he got a notification that his listing might be improved with some additional details he could do one of two things; ignore the input or make changes/remove the listing. I think his thread makes it pretty clear that the way it went down did not result in a happy seller OR customer.

But please be clear about this; none of this has anything to do with trying to finger either the buyer's or seller's intent. No one is saying that LarryBruce is trying to spin his material and capture unsuspecting buyers with misleading ads. No one is saying that the buyer was clueless and should have asked more questions. Frankly I think that LarryBruce's listing itself is about as benign as they get but that doesn't mean there isn't an opportunity to educate and assist in making it a better transactions for both parties. On the other hand, we certainly can also capture some of the most egregious listings.

But please make no mistake about this, no one is passing judgments about a seller's intent in a review. Readers are welcome to draw their own opinions about any trends that might emerge over time. So in 6 months from now a reader comes across the review of LarryBruce's listing. First, it might read that the reviewer thought the listing could use some more detail. No matter how Larry responded at the time to the review (or if at all), what opinion does a reader come away with? They have only a single review of a single listing. There is no trend for Larry's listings, it is a single voice in the woods. No reasonable person would make a judgment about Larry based upon a single review. No more than we currently do with a single negative feedback on ebay now. Who would form a strong opinion about a restaurant from a single meal in a single visit?

It are the trends that become significant. Trends undercover what specific stamps to watch for, what specific faults might be expected for the stamp you are seeking, and yes, even if a seller ends up with many bad reviews.

Is it possible for a highly motivated person to manipulate this tool? Yes, but we have put safe guards in place to prevent this. A large part of our time is spent being a watch dog over anyone from doing this, this is exactly what every Forum Mod does (like Bobby131313 n this forum). They stand guard by not allowing those with their personal agendas to damage what the community is contributing. And like a Forum Mod there are 'grey' areas about deciding when to intercede but any nonsense will be dealt with.

Of course there is no reason that good reviews can also be made for listings. No one really seems to think about this for whatever reasons. Truth is that positive reviews are always much rarer than negative reviews, I assume this is due to humans nature and what moves us to action. And positive reviews are just as likely, if not more so, to have hidden agendas. (We all have read these kinds of reviews, something written by someone who never even purchased the product/service or is just paid to write professional reviews.)

But this is the value of presenting objective data and statistical trends for readers to form their own opinions. Stamp Smarter will never be making judgments, drawing conclusions about intent, or make any assumptions about anyone's ethics.

Sorry for the long post.
Don

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Edited by 51studebaker - 06/19/2014 05:31 am
Pillar Of The Community
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Posted 06/19/2014   07:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Stallzer... ebay doesn't want (anyone) "overseeing some things".


I know ebay does not want it but it is a portion of the site's agenda.

See the site being referenced in this thread and you'd read this;

"

1. Members enter information on suspect listings; this 'opens' a record and starts the process. They enter the following

Short description of possible problems

Sellers name

Link to the listing

Catalog number (if applicable).

Screen capture of the listing

So regardless of what ebay wants (Which is strictly financially driven) There are many eyes overseeing listings on ebay.

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Posted 06/19/2014   08:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JLLebbert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
But how does Joe buyer know that the person sending the message is an expert ?

He doesn't. Neither does the seller! But some errors are so egregious that even a non-expert can identify them. Such items probably are not good candidates for Bill & Don's web site for this reason. And being able to share the same info with both buyer & seller should at least start a dialog.
A recent example that comes to mind was an imperf pair of Scott 459 (US). The seller admitted to not being especially knowledgeable. When I noticed the item, it had no bids. But, to be on the safe side, I contacted the seller. With no results. Assuming noone would be foolish enough to bid on the item, I forgot about it until later in the day. When I looked again, I noticed that someone had used the Buy-It-Now at $100 (a bargain if the item was genuine). The problem with the item ... 459 is a horizontal imperf coil. The item being sold was a vertical imperf coil, probably 409V (worth less than $10).
I understand why ebay & their sellers do not want "experts" to be contacting potential buyers. Actually, while this undermines my original post, I agree with this. There are always numerous obviously misidentified stamps for sale on ebay. Perhaps, for such items, "caveat emptor" should apply. When you're spending your hard-earned cash, some knowledge ought to be a prerequisite. Still, it would be nice to be able to reach out, tap a fellow collector on the shoulder & say "Pssst ... that ain't what you think it is!".
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Edited by JLLebbert - 06/19/2014 08:19 am
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Posted 06/19/2014   08:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I do not disagree with you because I'm a collector. I was simply playing devils advocate presenting the proverbial other side of the coin. There are too many sellers here, ebay, and all other auction sites that whether internationally or accidentally are listing things just for the hope of big profit so I hope the new site can save some collectors from losing their hard earned money.
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Posted 06/19/2014   4:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kevin504 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
ALL....
Example...go to site...look for US #408.
I viewed this item....I thought it was genuine....(everyone has the right to agree/disagree)
After closer examination of the listing at the site....
I see Bill W added his opinion....He thinks it is a genuine ebay listing.
Why is it still listed as a potention fraud????
NOW...this item is a $18 item....
Thought the reason behind this was to deter larger misidentified items???
not a $18.00 item???
Is that all you could find???
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Posted 06/19/2014   4:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kevin504 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Canada
644 Posts
Posted 06/19/2014   4:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 3Dadeo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
kevin504, I think you really need to give the site time to grow to its potential.

I for one am glad that someone is taking the time to do this. $15 item or $10,000.
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5894 Posts
Posted 06/19/2014   5:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add smauggie to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is not dialog, this is trying to control. Should you succeed in gaining control, as such, it is a short term "gain" and a long term loss for you Kevin. I for one would be sorry to see that happen.
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Posted 06/21/2014   11:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add kevin504 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
DON...tried to contact you thru your site....
email returned/bounced again...
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