499 & Full Ty I 499 Or 499 & 500 ?

Gawd, I hate the optimizer...

I'll re-load to photobucket for
full copies with magnifier and re-post

There... mo betta... click magnifier 2x
for full image...

http://s145.photobucket.com/user/di...l?sort=3&o=0

Compare your #500 candidate to: Siegel auction #839 item #1678 and to the PF data base Certs #s 473027 & 464353. These seem to have "weakly struck" rope/buttons. There are others on Siegel and in the PF that are weak, but these seem to be closer, to me, to yours. On those sights and my monitor, the colors are inconsistent--widely varied. I see characteristics on yours that resemble I, IA as well as II and III to some extent. Could be a strong I or maybe a IA? You mentioned in a previous post about not being sure all IAs to be Deep Rose in color, I tend to share that question. Problem is, I haven't heard of any of the experts state anything about any variance in the color nor that there could be weaker strikes, whereas the rope and button are not as prominent. Will be interesting to see what others with more knowledge about the issue have to say. This doesn't give you a definitive answer, I know, but its something to mull over.

Hi, Dave... thank you kindly for the reply...

I've been going on this subject with
Tipzi in another post... there indeed
seems to be some conjecture about the
500 being issued only in Rose...

I believe there's plenty of proven copies
out there more in the family of the 409...
and, according to Tipzi, not all Ia's have
the classic "super heavy line" at the top
of the rope, nor do all have the full dark
red circle around the button...

Then, again... there's the Full Ty I which
Armstrong mentions... so, I'm totally on
the fence with this one...

The left stamp, of course, is the classic
499, which I included in the same scan for
a side by sider...

I most definitely would like to hear some
more opinions if anyone else would like to
chime in...

I'd most definitely like to hear from Ken Srail
since I purchased my very first 500 cancel from
him, some 10-12 years ago... it's buried away
in some glassine now, since I've purchased four
or 5 mint copies since then, and now have my
*beauty* finally...

Randall

I've one copy only of a for-sure #500 I found in a batch of 2-cent reds. It has a strong rope/button and the deep rose color. I also have 4-5 "candidates" like yours that have the characteristics, but aren't quite "strong" impressions and aren't deep rose in color. Hopefully in the near future, Tipzi and I will be getting together (we don't live too far apart) to have some "training" for me about identifying special printing issue from the bank note companies and perhaps we can also look at some W/F issues too. He has a very broad and deep knowledge on U.S. Classic era issues. Perhaps he'll comment of this post too.

That'd be a *classic* (pun-intended) get-together
for you... nice to be in a reasonable proximity
with someone that vast a knowledge...

I'll be keeping my eyes peeled on the thread for
him, for sure...

My guess: stamp on the right is the 'full type 1'. I would not want to commit without seeing it in person. If I were going to purchase a type 1A, it would not be this one, but rather one with strong characteristics.

chasa... agreed... there appear to be many
(varieties, for a lack of a better word) of
the Full Ty I, some of which appear to be
getting certed as (500's)...

I'm no purist by any stretch, but when I've
purchased 500's, (I have about 5), they have
all been with the full Ia characteristics...

What I find remarkable, given the above, and
Armstrong's (and others') mentions - going back
decades, I believe there's enough evidence on
the Full Ty I for Scott, Harris, Brookman, etc.
to huddle on the subject, and perhaps adding
mention of it in their catalogues, and, (IMHO)
add it as a unique entity/classification, as
(for example) 499B (capital B) and call it a
Ty II, given (catalogue-wise) there does not
exist a Ty II for a flat plate 2cents2...

Your thoughts?

There has been a lot of posts concerning 499 TI 499 full TI and 500 TIa. Is anyone confident enough of their identifications to post high resolution images of the three stamps side by side. I for one would be interested in seeing them.

Hello, rohumpy... here's the full Ty Ia

Thanks disi123. Is it the consensus of the group that this Type Ia because of the strong toga rope and the heavy circle around the button? It is also my understanding that the color comes into it too.

This begs the question of how the full TI differs. It is also my understanding that the full TI has stronger lines all around over the "weaker" TI.

I dislike descriptions which rely on something being comparatively stronger, weaker, etc. than another. Just where is the line drawn.

rohumpy... there's nice large clear images
of all three types in this thread above for
you to view... the differences are all quite
clear to be able to discern one from the other...

Thought I would post some of my 499 / 500's that I have to add to the color confusion... You can clearly see the 499h "Boston Lake" on the bottom so I will not address that one. From left to right is as follows:
499,499,499,500,500. These are all certified. I have posted an individual pic of each in order. The one that has me is #2. Clearly looks like a 500 with all characteristics but cert clearly says that its overinking. In my hands I cannot see it and one day I will have to show this to someone for an explanation.

Shannon, your Second 499 has the characteristics of the "full Type 1" that is being discussed in this and 4 other posts further down. Some interesting insights on this. Also, your first 500, at least on my monitor, doesn't look to be deep rose and the second one does. Is it more carmine or reddish? Most believe only deep rose is the color for 500s. That 499 doesn't look "over-inked" to me

I agree with the Gator... but the one in question is certainly worth a second look by another agency... I'd send it out...

Here's your #2 enlarged, darkened, and focused a little... not enough pixels there to get a clear shot...



If you could re-scan at 1200dpi, I could do more with it...

Hi Shannon7692, the second stamp from the left appears to be the one I sold to you (expertized by Weiss). Yes, I also thought it was a Scott 500, but it came back as an overinked 499. Maybe you might get another expert opinion or Mr. Weiss may chime in.