Please Help ID Ribbed Paper...

Repeating from the other thread on #164:
Can we confine the ribbing discussion to one thread and not split it up between two? Things are getting lost in the shuffle and others are getting duplicated.

Clark,

1. Do you know what Ron Burns used to redefine the period of use for ribbed paper? He contradicts Crawford Capen from the late 19th century, as reported by Luff.

2. Since year dates are largely missing from most covers during the period Continental was doing production, what kind of data are being used to establish periods of use? Isolated covers with docketing or year dated international markings?

3. Are you lumping both types of silk paper into one (colored fibers and black fibers).

Please respond in the thread that mentions ribbed paper in the title. (This one)

Essayk, thank you for the reply. For the past hour or two I have taken several scans of my stamps to no avail. I think that in order to show the striations on these stamps you would have to take a photograph with backlight, just as you are doing with the "ribbed" paper stamps.
I am sure that you are correct in that my Cottrell printed stamps are totally different from your older stamps.
The striations on my coil stamps are caused by the gum that was applied by the papermaker; if I understand the above correct your striations are in the paper.

Peter

They are, as you know, dramatically different. One is very tiny, difficult-to-see, all black fibers whereas the other are usually larger, usually blue (but can be other colors too) fibers. In fact, when Ken Lawrence first showed me the CBNCo black fibers, I had a difficult time seeing them even with my 15X glass. So I can imagine that folks who use weak magnification would not be able to see it at all. The tiny-black-fibered type is believed to be unique to CBNCo and the importance of that fact, if true, may someday afford us with another possible way to ID Scott #164! However there is a problem with the time line in that we believe the CBNCo fibers can also be found BEFORE the #164s could have been printed in 1875.

Clark surely could have more to say about this and he will likely eventually answer your questions too.

I have copied most of the post from the other thread below:

First, however, about the time periods: Ron Burns has put together a draft paper study based on a study of orders for paper by the American, Continental and possibly the National Bank Note Company. He is able to account for paper orders including silk and ribbed paper as well as the American Bank Note Company hard paper, initially reported in the January 1914 American Philatelist.

Silk paper is more controversial. Some argue that it was nothing more than pulp contamination. The paper study suggests that the Continental silk (actually linen) paper was in use for a fairly short period of time, making it possible that adding the fibers was intentional. Paper with only a few larger fibers is most likely pulp contamination because occasional fibers can be found in the paper of every issue before the bank note series. On the other hand, the listing of the 6 cent Continental with paper with colored fibers in the Scott Catalog is contradictory and may not be accurate because Continental silk examples are known.

[Copied from the other thread]

Ribbing can be visible front or back. The 3 cent Hamilton Fish cover has ribbed paper on the front that can easily be seen. It also should be noted that certain intense shades of green or olive green on the Continental 3 cent Scott 158 are good indicators that ribbed paper is likely. I initially spotted the ribbed paper by the shade of the stamp before confirming in oblique light. The Scott 163 Continental 15 cent with ribbed paper is found with a clearer and more complete impression than ordinary Continental printings. I have seen auction houses confuse 163 with ribbed for a National 152 and I even saw one with a certificate from an expertizing committee that should have known better.

Based on an analysis by Ron Burns, stamps on Continental ribbed paper were issued in a fairly narrow time period of only a few months. At the time Continental was moving away from thin hard, often translucent, paper to slightly softer thicker paper. Both ribbed and the slightly later Continental silk (actually linen or cotton fibers) paper are on the slightly thicker and softer paper, but still considered to be hard paper based on UV tests. Unfortunately, the slightly later silk paper time period falls slightly later than the presumed period when Continental 24 cent stamps might have been printed. Yet, a small number of 24 cent stamps with enough fibers to resemble Continental silk are known. I have not seen as many verifiably National Bank Note printed stamps with as many fibers.

It is also possible to identify Continental silk paper from the front because the fibers should be visible front and back. Yet, very few covers have been found and documented. It would seem that most collectors don't know to look. Why are earliest documented usage (EDU) dates important? They can help establish the period of availability of stamps with specific characteristics and help answer some production questions.

When I found the Hamilton Fish cover, it had already been in a major exhibit without anyone noting the ribbing. The stamps and covers are out there and fairly easy to find.

Happy hunting!

Clark

Bill W: I don't have time right now to work on making a good image of ribbing. I have some good images of Continental silk that we used in the Banknote Course two years ago. I will post them later in a new thread when I have time and master more of the obscure features of this web site.

I'm with you Essay,If people didn't start up new threads for everything we could build some nice little compendiums on all sorts of topics. You could learn multiple lessons within a single thread. Look around at all the threads on 65 shades, 220's with caps, Z grills, etc.

If anyone is able to make it to the APS StampShow 2014 at Hartford, I will be at table 1015. I will have examples of ribbed and silk paper in the booth. Meanwhile, I must get ready for the show, leaving limited time to respond to posts until after the show is over.

Clark

I have used my original response to this comment to start a separate thread on silk paper since it is a separate topic from the theme of this ribbed paper thread. You may access the new thread here:
https://goscf.com/t/39044