Looking For A 15c Scott #340? - Money To Go To APS

As many of you know, Bill Weiss has worked tirelessly towards educating hobbyists on detecting fake and misidentified stamps and covers.

During his discovery efforts he occasionally buys stamps to 'see for himself' if a seller is describing the stamp correctly or not. He is offering one of these stamps with the proceeds to go to the APS educational fund.

He originally purchased this stamp as 'mint never hinged' under ebay lot #291161304080 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1908-09-Uni...047675.l2557).

Since all money from this stamp sale is going to APS, I thought I would link Bill's ebay listing here; http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...:LCA:US:1123

Bill has fully described the stamp in the details section, gum has been smoothed over to attempt to fool a buyer to look like it is mint, never hinged.
Don

That above quote is from Bill W listing....

Why can the item not be returned to the seller???

If such "skillfully done"....it could be easily overlooked
upon quick inspection by the seller.
Everyone makes mistakes.....correct???

Kevin, you might want to contact Rushmore directly to get the rest of the story on this one.

Not my place to contact the seller....
The seller is not the one who started this topic....
thus I am asking the poster, Don or Bill.

Also...I know who "rushmore" is susposed to be...
Does not matter who the seller is.

As a matter of fact....
I received 3 emails from Bill yesterday....
alerting me to possible reperfs, creases, etc....
Everyone makes mistakes....
that is my point.

Kevin,
Agreed, folks make mistakes. Bill can fill in the details but my understanding is that when he tried to return it the seller would not allow him to ship it back to the US location it had shipped from. Rather he wanted Bill to pay for a tracked return back to a UK location which was quite expensive. I believe that Bill, the seller, and ebay were involved and ebay eventually sided with Bill. I'll ask Bill to fill in these details.
But back to your point about mistakes... I didn't see anything that in anyway that in way was negative in Bill's listing (or my original post) regarding the sellers intent. It simply states as you quoted, seller said it was MHN but stamp actually had been gum retouched when Bill got it in his hands.

MikeQ, you previously had no qualms copying and pasting this sellers post from another forum. Are you somehow related as this seller which allows you to speak for them? Or have you had purchased material from this seller and have any first-hand (not second hand heresy copied from other forums) experience that you can share to help folks form a more balanced perspective? If so, please let us know.
Don

No Don, as a matter of fact I have no "relationships" with anyone. Nor am I a lemming who simply blindly believes what others say. As hard as you and Weiss try to badmouth Rushmore and others, I suspected that there might be two sides to the story. So I contacted Rushmore myself and got an earful. I would encourage others to do so too. The part of the whole deal that stunk to me was that (apparently) Weiss bought a stamp from them (smelling like a "set-up" in my opinion after hearing the "rest of the story" as Paul Harvey used to say) and then ultimately left them negative feedback. If I connected the dots properly he bought the stamp - got his money back, by way of opening an ebay "Case" - then did not return the stamp. Maybe I missed something.

My only reason for contributing to THIS thread was to introduce the idea to people here that rather than just blindly believing things, they should investigate for themselves.

With regard to your badmouth campaign against "the cartel": the acts you are suggesting these people perform are FEDERAL CRIMES. In a previous post here you quickly chronicled some of your "investigation notes" for Bobby. If you are that confident these people are lawbreakers, rather than pretend to be a Junior G-Man, Don, contact either the US Postal Inspection Service or the Federal Bureau of Investigation. They would have joint jurisdiction over the crime of using the mail to perpetrate a fraud. I made such a report myself once, and then subsequently assisted with an investigation. I found both agencies to be very eager to investigate this type of crime. And when all was said and done I was given a BEAUTIFUL engraved postal blue pen by a Postal Inspector. On the pen was engraved "Thank you from the US Postal Inspection Service. Good Job!".

Seems like Bobby commented on your 'investigation notes' along the lines that they prove nothing. If you are THAT CONVINCED these are CRIMINALS - take your "proof" to the government and if you are correct these people will be put in prison. Internet chat boards are not the appropriate venue for felony accusations.

I have explained what happened with this stamp in another thread here, but I will gladly explain it again;

stamp sold as "NH" was actually "PH" so I wanted a refund. Further, it was bought from rushmore_bargains, located in the UK, but was sent to me by ordinary domestic (US) first class mail from somewhere in Danbury/CT and/or Westchester/NY (it had both postmarks) so I wanted to be able to return it to a US address, not the UK address supplied by rushmore. I contended that it was unfair for me to have to spend money to protect myself in event of mail loss by needing to register the envelope at a total cost of $13.+ when to a US address would have been under $5.00. The rep agreed with me and advised me to escalate the case and when the seller failed to provide a US address as requested, I received the refund. After I received the refund I STILL offered to return it to a US address, and failure to provide one would result in me selling the stamp and donating the proceeds to a non-profit or charity. Since I never received a response, the stamp has been listed as stated it would.

Readers are free to draw their own conclusions, but it seems to me that my request for a US address was/is reasonable, and the seller's refusal to provide one is revealing. As I've said before, other than a few contrarians who revel in taking the opposing view on virtually any topic, no-one has stepped forward to tell us about a good shopping experience with any of this group of UK-based sellers. Yet Don and I have uncovered lots of evidence which would be useful if only ebay gave a *** Edited by Staff - NOT Family Friendly *** about fraud in the Stamps Category. I have contacted multiple Management-level people offering to supply evidence and NONE of those letters have been answered. And I even sent one to the spokesman who gave the Linn's reporter a statement he used in the big article there where he outlines ebay's commitment to fighting fraud on the site, and he did not respond either!

Thanks for trying to clear some of the land mines that are out there.

Just wanted to throw a suggestion out there. Since it is an altered stamp (meaning it has been altered to improve its appearance). What about soaking all or some of the gum off to prevent the next guy from calling it a NH?

Sometimes I think the scammers are looking for items with correct/expertly described faulty or repaired items to buy at discount only to resale with no description for a quick profit.

MikeQ,
First, I have never bad-mouthed any seller. I have opinions about listings and the purpose of any forum is for opinions to be posted. It is this exchange of opinions that help with education of each other. I rarely, perhaps never, have started a thread that cast a bad light on any sellers. And if you are willing to look at the glass has being half full you can see on the Stamp Smarter site that I often praise many of the sellers. In fact on two occasions in the last week we contacted sellers to let them know the stamps they had listed were actually higher value stamps then they originally thought.

Just as Kevin states, mistakes can be made. I give all sellers the benefit of the doubt. Listings might simply contain a typo, seller simply have missed something, or perhaps a seller has a new employee who missed something in the hundreds of listings they are managing. Currently about 45% of the sellers we have worked with respond very professionally and are grateful for being able to clarify any possible confusion or misunderstanding in the listing. After all and surely you agree, it is far better to resolve any potential transactional issues before the sale is made rather than afterwards. But you have been a continual detractor of the site for some reason.

And since you once assisted with an investigation then I am sure you are perfectly aware of these things;
- The wheels of justice turn slowly
- You don't publicly post all the evidence you have during an active investigation, doing so undermines any investigation that might be occurring.

It is my opinion that providing some of the alarming evidence, until the person is tried and convicted, as means of allowing folks to protect themselves is not a 'bad' thing. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but frankly if my neighbor has been arrested for some major crime but is out on probation and is awaiting trial, I still want to know as much as I can about the situation so I can protect myself and my family if needed. I am still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on being innocent but chances are I am not going to lend him money or let him babysit my kids until the investigation/trial is complete. So give me as much info as possible without risking the investigation, allow me to decide for myself on how I should interact with this person until such time.

Again, anyone can step up and drop some big bucks with this seller if they want to; I would welcome hearing from others with actual experience. This isn't beginner material, surely some of those whom have bought some of this material and have been pleased are out there somewhere. Bill gave it a try and found out that his suspicion was true, the stamp was indeed misidentified. (But I guess some will read other things into that or could even believe that Bill touched up the stamp himself. Will it every end?) Others have bought from him (i.e. Sinclair?) and I believe said he returned the entire lot when he found it not as described. And no one has yet stepped forward to explain why a seller(s) would swap large amounts of material between themselves, often buying at thousands of dollars, only to turn around and relist it starting at 1 cent. So you, and Bobby, can certainly make the case that no one has been officially charged and prosecuted, this is indeed true. Some things take time and large amounts of money. Is the only legitimate end when someone steps up with the $100k required to prosecute someone across international laws? Is this not exactly what a criminal would want to happen?
Don

Bill & Don, your work is greatly appreciated.

No one has stepped forward? Really? So in other words, they are "guilty" unless people step up to defend them? Maybe no one on this board ever bought from them! What about all the positive feedbacks on their "accounts"? Didn't those people "step up" and sing their praises? Or are they ALL FAKE feedbacks?

I myself am confident in the ebay "system". Seems like in the Linn's article ebay said they were even strengthening their anti-fraud program (not a direct quote - my paraphrasing from memory)

Correct me if I'm wrong: you worked for ebay as an unpaid consultant and they told you they would no longer be needing your (free) services. You do realize that, to any of us who have ever fired someone, your behavior with regard to the ebay BASHING comes off as something a disgruntled former employee would do, right?

And if you really BELIEVE that ebay doesn't care about fraud then you should report suspected fraud to the FEDERAL authorities.

In my opinion when someone smears the reputation of ebay sellers, some of that "mud" gets splashed on all ebay sellers because people lose confidence in the safety of buying on ebay in general - and all sellers are harmed by that.

MikeQ,
Google 'buying an ebay account' and do a bit of discovery on how easy it is to build a fake positive feedback. It's great that you have a lot of faith in ebay's vetting and feedback system. Their motivation is what; obviously to make a buck on whatever sells. That's is as far as my faith in ebay goes, they will do what is in their best $$$ interest.

But I have a lot of faith in Bill, a guy who sits day in and day out seeing stamp cross his desk that are not as described. He is the guy on the front lines who is dealing with this issue, and has for years, so I place a lot of weight in his opinion on this topic. He has shown me endless desire to help the hobby and give something back to the hobby he loves.

Your post has an incorrect assumption. I have never worked for ebay in any shape or form. Other than having an ebay account and selling some of my 'left-over' stamps I have had no relationship with ebay at all. I am a semi-retired IS/IT professional who worked my butt off by starting from the bottom rung in the corporate ladder and worked my way up to being an owner of two technology companies. So yes, I have fired many people.

Again, what has or hasn't been reported, and which authorities are or aren't involved is something that is not for public consumption right now. You should understand this. And I have concurred that no seller should be smeared. Every opportunity has been provided to hear the other side of the story. I have never accused anyone of breaking any laws. I have never speculated on a sellers motivation or intention. I have posted my opinion that something very strange, and potentially damaging to others and to our hobby, may be going on and is worth being cautious. And please note I have repeatedly said that there are good sellers on ebay.

But bashing ebay sellers and impacting all ebay sellers negatively? Why you insist on reading what you want into these post is a bit beyond me. I have shown you that I have not done this at all. I have demonstrated that some of my efforts are actually helping some of the sellers. They are grateful. I am not sure what can be done to get you to hear what I am saying. But by making the assumptions on my motives, something that I have never done on you, is a mistake. It's a mistake that you are doing the very thing that you seem concerned about, making judgments about another's person's motives.
Don

edit; fixed typos

There are a number of global sellers on ebay who are based on more than one continent and perhaps have different divisions in different countries. I have never thought this to be nefarious in any way (and every bit of that seller's feedback is based on selling stamps).

My post was a reply to Weiss. I believe that up until his recent "firing" he was an unpaid '"consultant" for ebay. Now it appears that he is disgruntled, former unpaid consultant. That opinion is based upon my common sense telling me that while he was working for them all those years he was probably not bashing them on public bulletin boards.

MikeQ - You couldn't be more wrong if you tried! I invite anyone who has access to the old Delphi/VSC files to do a little investigating on their own, and what they will discover is that I have been very critical of ebay's unfair protection of bigger sellers, including giving them extra benefits not given to all sellers. You can also find very easily, simply by doing a Google search of the "StampChat" archives available that I was involved in this work many years ago. And critical of ebay all along. And do not ever think what helping on the SCW or EMR Programs was motivated by - not a desire to HELP ebay, but by a desire to HELP ebay's buyers!

You seem to be, for reasons known only to you, eager to disparage the unpaid work I have engaged in for many years, for no other reason then to try to help less experienced buyers by ferreting out problematic listings. If you are motivated to stick up for sellers who exhibit nefarious habits, that is your right. Be my guest. But please do not try to convince readers of what my motives are. You don't have a clue. You don't know me. And at the same time, I hope that readers will weigh the validity of any poster who refuses to reveal his real name. While it is your absolute right to use a fake name if you wish, common sense tells us that it's WAY easier to disparage people and/or your inane opinions of their motives, when you don't need to declare your real identity.

I would also hope readers would do some research on my career, covering a half a century in the hobby, engaged in many different aspects of it and compare that to someone electing to hide behind a pseudonym as he tries to paint a negative picture of someone with outstanding credentials and history of service to the hobby.

MikeQ - I don't think so. I don't personally know Bill Weiss, but I have been on ebay for a long time, dealt with Bill, know what he did for ebay and for APES, as well as his participation on this board, his NYFM book, and other endeavors. Interpreting Bill to have been "fired" and a "disgruntled, former unpaid consultant" is a bit of a reach. So, my question for you is why do you have it out for Bill? I haven't seen anything he has done before, during or after the ebay consulting that has not been in the best interest if of the hobby.

edits: word edits as indicated.